Whose Psyche Is It, Anyway?

When we discuss our psychological state, what are we talking about. Better yet, who are we talking about? What is the identity of the guy in my head?

Generally, such questions are not asked. They can become important in certain dissociative disorders. If I have two guys in my head, there is clearly an issue. Is what I identify as my self – the sum of my life experiences, memories, decisions, opinions, feelings, habits – is this what will survive the death of my body? Will Nancy and Jim’s second child, the neurotic, anxiety-prone, attention deficient boy, wander the halls of heaven worrying about what’s expected of him next? Will he enter paradise with a running dialog in his head – not actually in paradise but just talking to himself about what he supposes to be paradise?

Just whose psyche is it?

This is an apt question – particularly when you consider that the word psyche in Greek means “soul.” A psychiatrist means, interestingly, a “doctor of the soul.”

From a spiritual perspective, much of what we experience on a moment-to-moment basis, is pathological. That is to say, it is a product of spiritual sickness. The root of this sickness, in Greek, is philautia, “love of self.” In more common parlance, we could say that we are ego-driven.

We create a false-self through our collection of experiences, memories, decisions, opinions, feelings, habits – a false-self that is anxious about its existence, and that is constantly re-inventing and revising its story.

“I’m not sure I ever loved her,” a troubled husband says. This is the same man who once thought he couldn’t live without her. But as our lives change, our memories and experiences, opinions, etc., are revised. They are always extremely selective. The active life-memory that we engage on a regular basis is but a tiny fraction.

“I remember my fourth grade year,” we say. But we don’t remember any “year.” We remember a few select faces and events that we deem “fourth grade year,” much like a set of yearbook photos. We may have a few select experiences or dominant feelings. These are often memories that have not been successfully integrated into a general sense of well-being. They linger because they still hurt.

Indeed, the entire question of identity is problematic. Oddly, in the modern world we often don’t identify with our bodies. “That’s not him,” you hear at a funeral as people comfort themselves with Manichaean sentiments. And yet the body, with its DNA, is the one most consistent (and persistent) component of our existence.

So who is it that Jesus saved and why is it so important?

“He calls us each by name,” is a comforting quote in the modern world. It is extremely important where the life of the individual is both exalted above everything and crushed beneath the weight of mass consumerism. We shop for our identities, only to have bought what everyone else has. “Jesus called me by my name.”

The highest example of human existence offered in Christianity is described in St. Paul’s letter to the Philippians:

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He emptied Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name (Phi 2:5-9).

This act of self-emptying is known as kenosis. It is the ultimate act of love, the ultimate act of self-giving, self-forgetting. And it is the act that St. Paul here directly connects with Christ’s exalted Name. For St. John, this is the moment of Christ’s glorification. It is an act not just of the sacrificing God/Man, but the very act which He enjoins on every one of His followers – it is the ultimate act of true human existence:

Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. (Luk 17:33)

And it is interesting that the word translated “life” in this passage, is the word: psyche, soul. Whatever it is that is so precious about our identity is the stuff of self-offering. The ego cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Our identity is something other than what we commonly think about:

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. (1Jo 3:2)

 And

 To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”‘ (Rev 2:17)

This “identity” is not unconnected with what we now think of as our self. But it is the self resurrected, transformed. That “self” is constantly being born through the work of Christ within us. It is not the improvement of our present self, a “moral project.” For the process is not one of improvement but of life from the dead. The old dies and the new is reborn. So that the Christian life is not one of learning how to “behave” ourselves as Christians. The Christian life is the learning of how to put the “old self to death.”

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Col 3:5)

And

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (Rom 8:13)

What we “put to death”  within our lives is much that we daily experience as the “ego.” Thus, our fears, the habits that are the passions, our preciously defended opinions, so much that is formed by sinful experiences within our lives are transformed in the work of purification. We are not yet “what” we shall be – and the “what” of what we are now is often confused with the “who” of who we are now. Who would I be without the fear? Who would I be without the envy, anger and jealousy?

There is a self at our very core and heart. It is the psychosomatic unity of our person. Our experience of the true self is deeply clouded by the sin that infects our existence. It is the true self that is “being saved.” However, much that we treasure and hold dear is indeed passing away. The asceticism of the Church teaches us to let go of that which is passing away and to hold dear that which is being renewed. In addition, with patient endurance and watchfulness, we learn to tell them apart.

The wholeness and the peace that is encountered in the presence of truly sanctified persons (such as the spirit-bearing elders) is an encounter with a true self. There is a fullness there that can almost be overwhelming. It is this same fullness that is described by Motivilov in the famous encounter with St. Seraphim in the snowy Russian winter

It is the same for us when we discern the true presence of Christ within ourselves. The passions are diminished; fears disappear; the traumas of life resolve and we forgive everyone for everything. It is in such moments that we see paradise and gain courage to renew our struggle.

Whose psyche is it? Whose soul is it? It is myself, but myself renewed according to the image in which it was created. Christ within me, the hope of glory. 

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a retired Archpriest of the Orthodox Church in America. He is also author of Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, and Face to Face: Knowing God Beyond Our Shame, as well as the Glory to God podcast series on Ancient Faith Radio.



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115 responses to “Whose Psyche Is It, Anyway?”

  1. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    Thank you for these words. They are so important. Every time a new article pops up on your blog, I give thanks to God.

    You refer to memories as the stuff of who we are. We also mistake what we do for who we are. It’s more difficult when it seems everyone around us wants to place emphasis on what we do (work life) as an indicator of who we are.

    A fair bit of modern philosophy is based on what the ‘mind’ is. The ethos in this culture heavily shapes and colors the meaning of what the word refers to. We had a subject in the comments a while back when we talked about the mind of God. The emphasis seemed to be that the entire creation is in the mind of God. As far as I know, such discussions do not translate easily (in the western world) into an Orthodox understanding of a life in Christ. I hope I’m not over reading into this article, but our life, our soul, is the self-emptying of Christ, not what the philosophers call “mind”.

    Dear Father if you have more words on this subject I would like to hear them. Otherwise, I believe what you’ve said here is very important and needs careful consideration, especially for those among us who have been inundated in the academic fields of the western cultures (including myself).

  2. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Sorry I meant to say that we make the mistake of taking our memories as the stuff of who we are.

  3. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    I’ve been thinking about this article of the course of the morning. One thought is that much of what we think of as the “self” is just the noise of shame. Shame is deeply bound up in the experience of “identity” (our sense of “who I am”). I just spent a weekend at a conference where I was fairly well-known (though I was primarily an audience member). It can be a bit overwhelming (the greetings, and conversations that center around “it’s so wonderful to meet you,” sorts of things). All of that is gratifying in one way, but cannot be mistaken for identity in another. That “it does not yet appear what we shall be” is at the profound heart of things.

    Some of the conversations/lectures this weekend spoke about the tendency in the modern world to separate ourselves from our bodies (and thus to mistakenly think of ourselves as “mind”). There was some good discussion of the “nous” – which is not at all the same thing as “mind.”

    I am chewing and digesting, and just praying now that I’m back home from the trip.

  4. Holly Holmstrom Avatar
    Holly Holmstrom

    This is so beautiful. Thank you so much!!!

  5. Sarah Avatar
    Sarah

    You wrote:
    “This “identity” is not unconnected with what we now think of as our self. But it is the self resurrected, transformed. That “self” is constantly being born through the work of Christ within us.”

    “There is a self at our very core and heart. It is the psychosomatic unity of our person. Our experience of the true self is deeply clouded by the sin that infects our existence.
    It is the true self that is “being saved.”

    My question is; can our true self be experienced here and now?

  6. Brenda Johnson Avatar
    Brenda Johnson

    Dear Father….Once again, your writing has given me hope! With Thanksgiving coming up, I am SO dreading hosting a dinner for my husbands family. What should be a joy, as I usually love these occasions, is causing me such anger, as I think of these peoples actions over the past few years. Mostly at others, rather than my own self.
    I won’t go into details…but they are truly hurtful and seemingly without the least bit of regret or even awareness of the harm done. And each person involved in these acts are self-professing Christians, in public worship church positions.
    How do I resolve my anger at their actions and
    “do all things heartily as unto the Lord?”
    Learning to die to self seems the way but learning how to speak the Truth in love seems important
    I confessed this last week to my spiritual father…and I’m still confession!
    Lord have mercy!
    Brenda

  7. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    I think I may have met, only minutes ago, a truly sanctified person. It was the Orthodox priest at the church in the town square. He spoke no English … but didn’t need to. His smile, demeanor, few words in Greek and gentle handshake said it all. Yet another blessing.

  8. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    There’s a lot to be said for what’s written here. However, I am wondering how you would include the scriptures that include a less favorable view of ψυχή. For example, in 1 Corinthians 2 the “spiritual person” (πνευματικὸς) that receives the things of the Spirit of God is contrasted with the “natural person” (ψυχικὸς) that does not receive the things of the Spirit of God. And in James 3 that which is “natural” or sensual (ψυχική) is associated with that which is “earthly” (ἐπίγειος, lit. ‘upon the earth’) and “demonic” (δαιμονιώδης), although I think the Greeks (as in the philosophers, specifically the Stoics) see the word “demonic” differently than we do. In other words, it seems to me that the word has a neologistic meaning beside “soul” as we think of it and is indicated within the Gospels. This use is not associated with being in harmony with the Spirit. Whatever else is meant by ψυχή in these verses it has a nuance that that is clearly unfavorable.

    My reconciliation is that the neologistic use of ψυχή refers to consciousness (psyche). The ψυχή, as in psyche, is essential for nascent personhood. But even my lizards have consciousness and something of self-awareness. All animals and humans that have brains have a ψυχή in this sense. I would suggest that this is the ψυχή referred to in these passages. If you were to allow that, this implies that the ψυχή is just for getting on with our earthly existence. Which implies that whatever we think we mean by hypostatic existence it may include the ψυχή, as in psyche, but it is much more than that. The ψυχή in this sense is what we use to pick berries, make tools, throw rocks at tigers, etc.

  9. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Since my stroke a couple of years (mild) I have discovered 2 different identities: 1. my sin self, and 2. my Christ centered self.

    They were each there before but more mixed.

    When I am not talking to people face to face my Christ centered self tends to dominate with Joy and Thanksgiving. Knowing Him was a gift before my stroke.

    When I am talking out loud to others, especially my long suffering wife, the cynical darkness dominates.

    So I try to pray, offer thanksgiving and friendly greetings to overcome the darkness (centered in a different part of my body). It is a bit like dance and theater training.

    The energy is different between the two and the anger center is not quite as strong and, by God’s mercy and you alls prayers, will be eliminated before I repose. But I choose it too often…

    I do not feel shame so much as stupidity (which is founded on shame to be sure)

    This is the day the Lord has made! Let us rejoice and be glad in it.

  10. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Sarah,
    In some measure – yes. But, it would be the same as experiencing paradise.

  11. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Brenda,
    Forgiveness can be difficult. One possibility is to think of good things they have done (surely they are not thoroughly evil). Give God thanks for those things, and ask Him to be merciful to them and give them grace.

  12. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Simon,
    I don’t think that there’s a consistent use or meaning of the word “psyche” in the New Testament. It can vary – as in it can simply mean “life,” or something similar, rather than a more specific thing. St. Paul’s vocabulary has to be seen in isolation – as far as I’m concerned.

  13. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    BTW, Father, the almost constant physical pain I suffer from my maladies help me embrace the presence of Jesus and His laughter–not my anger. That seems to be a paradox of the Cross.

  14. Sarah Avatar
    Sarah

    And paradise would be like experiencing heaven on earth? You can correct me, but as far as I know, we live in the age to come. Hence in the Lord’s prayer we are asking his kingdom to come to us in our present every day life as well on heaven. Like Saint Siloan experienced a state of hell. He was deeply, deeply distressed, and eventually he lived in a state of heaven by God’s grace.

    Because I’m starting to recognize my two selves and only my two selves. Like yesterday I was invited to a luncheon and I really didn’t want to go. All of me didn’t want to, but all of me encouraged me. I mean, I didn’t know what to do. Part of me wanted to go, part of me didn’t. Free will and divine will. I ended up going, and it was okay. I mean I did not hate it, I tolerated it.

    The layer that hated it did not occur. Not a trace of hate. I am convinced they’re are 3 layers to the person. There’s the part that hates everything, tolerates things, and loves all things. And I seem to be only tolerate and loves things. Is there something to that? To only able to love, tolerate things?

    I guess what I’m trying to ask, get at, the healed self, the transformative self, has love. And this transformative self abides in love, and lives in a present reality of heaven who can love anyone they encounter. When this happens, they see God in everyone and anyone. Even their enemies.

    What am I supposed to do from here?
    Am I right or wrong in what I’m trying to say? Because this article is what I needed to read. Thank you. I’m only a person in every day life who is experiencing these things and I know I shouldn’t be able to. God’s will is what happened.

  15. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Sarah, excellent question. If I am not being arrogant, I think a certain type of “tolerance” is used by the evil one to corrode my love and actually as acceptance of the evil in my heart fomented by my anger, et.al.

    It allows me to think I do not have to turn away and can stay lukewarm and face what is described in Rev. 3:15-16

  16. Susannah Avatar
    Susannah

    Wow! So Well Said! Thank You, Father (Elder) Stephen!

  17. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Sarah,
    What you relate is quite interesting. The Elder Cleopa of Romania (now a saint) used to frequently say to people, “May paradise consume you!” It was a very pleasant greeting. Your looking at the example of St. Silouan is quite suggestive. I think that what we have are “glimpses” of that reality from time to time – perhaps even for a bit of duration occasionally. That it should become something of a “steady state” is likely for a saint – though their accounts seem to vary. We’re all so unique.

    Paradise, heaven, all of it is intensely “personal” – in the sense of “hypostasis.” It’s not “relative” or “unstable” but an existence that is rooted and grounded in love rather than materiality.

    What do we do. We put one foot in front of the other – giving God thanks for all things – loving and repenting all the while.

  18. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Susannah,
    The only way I have earned a monniker like “Elder” is by getting old! I’ll turn 71 in a few weeks. Some parts of my body (my left ankle in particular) seem to be turning 91 and I don’t know quite how that happened. When I think of men like Elder Cleopa, I think of a man who spent years in the Romanian forests and countryside hiding out from the authorities who wanted to arrest him – all while maintaining a level of prayer that I can only marvel at.

    But, thanks for the compliment.

  19. Dunn N Eric Avatar

    I have recently been pondering the same questions about self. I’m glad God has provided someone to articulate answers that help see more clearly.

  20. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dunn,
    We’re all learning as we go!

  21. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father and all commenters, thank you for this.

    I am always struck by another part of the letter to the Philippians. chapter 3:
    “. . . If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.”

    To me these words are a profound statement of what it is to be transfigured, even if there are “good things” we leave behind in that process.

  22. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    I’m grateful that you mentioned in the comment stream that St Paul should be read separately from the Gospels in so far as consistency in the interpretation of words used. I’m grateful because I haven’t been taught that yet. Although I was taught to read the Gospels and Epistle. It’s just that I didn’t realize fully that such usages might be different and careful reading is needed. I so appreciate this!

  23. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    I could add that St. John uses words in a manner that differs from Matt., Mark, and Luke. It’s clear that the Synoptics share a lot of commonality (including vocabulary (somewhat). You’ll notice though that only Matthew uses the phrase, “Kingdom of Heaven,” where we would expect “Kingdom of God.” No doubt, there are spiritual interpretations of this difference, but they are also likely historical as well.

    I remember attending a conference once at a Presbyterian Church where my brother-in-law was pastor (that’s why I was there). One of the lecturers was explaining the “Bibilical” teaching regarding the “poor,” and explained that “poor” had this particular meaning and that it always meant that everywhere it occurred – which was just nonsense. I think I said as much, only to realize that I was in hostile territory. I shut up and left…

    There’s this tendency, particularly in conservative realms of Protestantism, to treat the Bible as though it were one book, and therefore its words always mean the same thing. It is, in fact, a collection of books, written in very different circumstances and languages. We are always correct to ask about those things.

    Even in modern usage – some Orthodox writers use “heart” and “nous” interchangeably while others make a careful distinction. I tend to read for the “sense” of what is being said…praying all the while.

  24. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father, to your point addressed to Dee, my husband (a native Greek) always says that to a native speaker, the differences in the Greek of the New Testament books and their relative complexity and sophistication or simplicity are quite glaring. Perhaps that is a kind of built in advantage others of us have to learn. Plus I don’t think anyone familiar with ancient texts (or even just old ones!) expects absolute consistency from author to author, another advantage it seems to me.

  25. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    The Grace that comes from truthful participation in the Sacraments of the Church even as one reposes is beyond most folks belief until it is experienced — but it is deeply real and without doubt transformative in often unimaginable ways.

    Sometimes, Jesus extends a portion of His Grace to people outside the Church or at the hands of a defective pastor — if one allows it.

    I spent 15 years seeking Jesus outside the Church and the first 7 under a seriously defective and hurtful priest. Despite those difficulties, His Grace the last 21 years has been growing despite me being lazy and recalcitrant all to often.

    Jesus still forgives me when I submit to His Mercy yet does not force my will.

  26. Ook Avatar
    Ook

    Father, speaking of using words differently, I was coming around to the idea that “nous” is synonymous with “soul” in some rough manner, and that what constitutes the modern definition of “psyche” is not part of it. Would it be possible to clarify?

  27. Michael N Nyström Avatar
    Michael N Nyström

    Father Stephen.

    I am trying to understand what the soul is? Am I in totality a soul (body, mind and spirit). Genesis 2:7 says And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV

    Then in Matthew 16:26 NIV Jesus says, “What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?”

    I found this article helpful and I will read it again but the soul remains a mystery to me. I have heard that a Pastor is called to be a shepherd of souls. I am not of an orthodox background, so maybe the Orthodox have a clear teaching on this.

    Thanks for all your insights.

    Mike N

  28. Helene d. Avatar
    Helene d.

    Thank you P. Stephen for this very important text. Something to meditate on again and again…
    Forgive me, but I’d like to add a short video (2,25 min) of Saint Cleopas of Romania, (May Paradise consume you !) who has just been canonized with 25 other Romanian saints.
    I watch it regularly because what I feel is inexpressible…
    Holy and humble Father Cleopas !
    Glory to God !

  29. Hélène d. Avatar
    Hélène d.

    Little oversight, here’s the video !
    https://youtu.be/l_wZKNnMsCI

  30. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Ook,
    The “nous” is a “faculty of the soul,” most specifically, it is that faculty by which we perceive God and spiritual things. Note that it “perceives” which is not the same thing as “thinks about.” The “soul” is perhaps best understood as the “life” of a human being.

    Of course, it is all confused by the modern use of the word “psyche” which basically means “mind” or everything that is mental. Our existence is a union of soul and body, so that there doesn’t seem to be a “clean” division between the body and the soul.

    “Spirit” would best be understood as the nous itself – that which God “breathes” into us that makes knowledge of Him possible.

    The Philokalia has this:

    Nous – (Gk Νους,) “the highest faculty in man, through which – provided it is purified – he knows God or the inner essences or principles … of created things by means of direct apprehension or spiritual perception. “The nous” does not function by formulating abstract concepts and then arguing on this basis to a conclusion reached through deductive reasoning, but it understands divine truth by means of immediate experience, intuition or ‘simple cognition’ (the term used by St Isaac the Syrian).”

    The “soul” is the more inclusive term, such that we would say “This night, your soul will be required of you” (Lk. 12:20). It is our life. The nous is a “faculty” or “power” that perceives, etc.

    I pray none of that is confusing.

  31. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    See my answer to Ook. The Scriptures do not always use these terms in a precise manner, and writers across centuries and cultures are not always consistent. But the “soul” is our life. It is a very broad term. We speak of the “salvation of the soul” which refers to the “saving” of our whole life – that is, of our whole life being lived in union with God.

  32. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    The quote from the Philokalia is very helpful. I believe it encapsulates the thought I was attempting to convey in a previous comment in another comment stream about the use of the word “mind”. In those circumstances I referenced, I heard a philosopher use the word “mind” to mean the mind that we use to describe the workings in our brain, “formulating abstract concepts and then arguing on this basis to a conclusion reached through deductive reasoning…” and he also used the words, nous, Logos, image (of God), and mind of God, in fact, all of creation (as being in the mind of God), etc to mean the same thing as “mind” the organ of forming abstract thoughts, etc. The usage seems overly inclusive, and such action obfuscates the embodiment (in the body) of communion with God, with what seems to be boiled down to what we call mental events. To be honest, it was hard to take, given the philosopher’s attempts to present such notions as Orthodox. Also, to top it off, the person hadn’t lived long in the life of Christ (as an Orthodox Christian). —Another factor that contributes to the shallowness.

  33. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Please forgive me, Father, regarding the tenor of my last comment. I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, although I continue to be uncomfortable with what the philosopher was saying and doing.

  34. Ook Avatar
    Ook

    Thank you, Father, for your very helpful guidance.

  35. Helen Avatar
    Helen

    There is a branch of psychology called Internal Family Systems, with a Christian application of this in a book called Altogether You by Jenna Riemersma. It gives a way to understand how our different parts of us have dealt with overwhelming events and situations and offers a way towards healing that includes recognizing the core within each of us that is the image of God, or true self. It is a very compassionate way to look at ourselves and then each other.

  36. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Yes, the Philokalia’s definition is far more precise. The philosopher in question was speaking in a far more broad manner (and modern, Western manner) in order to discuss and refute the notions of pure materialism. It’s perhaps unfortunate that the term used for “non-material” was couched in terms of “mind.” The notion he was refuting would hold that what we term “the mind” (thoughts, etc.) are simply artifacts of the brain – and not “real” in the sense that the material world is real, etc.

    However, for the purposes of spiritual understanding, the language and terms as set forth in the Philokalia are more useful and precise. If, however, someone were wrestling with the notions of “is there anything other than materiality?” I think Nathan Jacobs’ (the philosopher in question) presentation could be quite helpful. Language is so helpful except when it isn’t!

  37. Mark A Olsen Avatar
    Mark A Olsen

    Wow just another great commentary on what I call “Hidden Christianity “. In my meager faith and limited time in Orthodox, these writings of yours ( is it really who you are? Smile) and Fr Hopko that resonate and address how western modernity hijacks us from our true self. I enjoy conversations about these matters I also refer to as “ living in the matrix”, but many just can’t wrap around it, so it’s rarely addressed even from the pulpit. I mean us western folk would be insulted being told we didn’t have a clue of who we are, what our identity is, especially by a long haired bearded priest from an archaic church! Well done Padre! Adios!

  38. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thanks, Father, from me, too, for your comment to Ook that contained the quotation from Philokalia. Very helpful indeed!

  39. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Ook,

    I have a strong tendency to agree with you. The psychological mind is clearly and obviously a brain-dependent phenomena. This means that when things are working well, then life has a tendency to seem well even when things are going off the rails. But, there are other times when one’s perception of their own existence is entirely unreliable. In that case, one’s own existence becomes burdensome. I resist ideas and notions that elevate the psychological mind to anything that makes us “like” God. The mind is for getting on with life on earth. Because of its many obvious limitations and vulnerabilities it isn’t realistic to think of it as much more than that. There are good reasons why religions in the East have converged to the wisdom of 无心 (wuxin) in Daosim and 無心 (mushin) and अचित्त (acitta) in Buddhism,or “no mind.” Daosim and Buddhism both have very complex treatments that arrive at similar conclusions regarding the problematic nature of the mind. And my personal experience resonates deeply with what is written in those traditions.

    Although, I am expecting Fr. Stephen to provide some measured push back on these comments I am hoping he will generously include them for consideration.

  40. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    The best treatment I’ve read/heard on the issue of materialism has been your own—(and I’m not unlearned on the subject). Please forgive my boldness.

  41. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    The late Fr. Thomas Keating states:

    The false self is the idealized image of ourselves developed from early childhood to cope with emotional trauma due to the frustration of our instinctual needs for survival, security, affection, esteem, etc.

    Christian life and growth are founded on faith in our own basic goodness, in the being that God has given us with its transcendent potential. This gift of being is our true self.

    Is Keating correct from an Orthodox perspective? He was a Catholic.

  42. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    I think I would generally agree with him. Vocabulary issues…

  43. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Thanks. 🙂

  44. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Simon,
    My push back. I believe that we elevate the wrong kind of thought/consciousness/awareness in modern, Western culture. I can even agree that sometimes wiping the blackboard clean can be helpful. But it’s also the case that our conscious experience is real, regardless of its source, etc. We’re not a lump of meat (and Buddhist, etc., don’t think we’re lumps of meat, either). I will say that there’s a native “wisdom” in the Far Eastern systems that try to describe something that Orthodoxy describes as well – but with different vocabulary, etc., but still with some commonalities.

    For myself, I probably concentrate on the question of “what is healthy” – especially compared to my present habits. I have the inherent noisiness of ADHD, so that I’m always aware of that condition driving certain experiences and distorting any “sense of self.” I work at it. I think one of the reasons I like to write is that it is a place in which that condition is suspended for a certain period. It’s like someone with Alzheimers being able to set aside the condition and just speak normally with someone (an extreme example).

  45. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks so much Fr. Stephen.

    What saddens me, though, is the vast number of Christians who will miss or reject this because their theological paradigm doesn’t allow for basic goodness being the root of the true self.

  46. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    Yes. A fundamental tenet of Orthodoxy is that everything God created is good – that existence itself is a “good” thing. Inasmuch as something is “not good” it does not exist. Thus, as we find in the Fathers, evil is not an existence – it is a “parasite” of existence. It only “is” through perverting something good and moving it away from its true purpose and true existence. Salvation moves us towards the truth of our existence – which is good – towards God who is the “only truly existing One” and the only true Good.

  47. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    I have a long history of extreme breaks from reality in which everything in my consciousness that felt most real was in fact NOT real. No, we are not just chunks of meat. You are reducing my argument to something I never said. I never once implied it. What I said is that consciousness is brain dependent and that creates a huge set of dependencies. Anyone who thinks that consciousness is not brain-dependent can either pull rank, appeal to authority, or there’s a lot of explaining to be done and I imagine gymnastics as well.

  48. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Simon,
    I did not mean to imply that you were reducing us to a chunk of meat. I’m sorry that came through the wrong way. Mostly – I was just saying that our thoughts and consciousness have an importance of their own – and that it’s hard to speak of it. Sorry.

  49. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Such really good news Fr. Stephen!

    Calvin sincerely missed the boat on this one and the consequences have been disastrous!

  50. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Fr. Thomas Keating said that attachment to thoughts … whatever kind … is a real problem. It prevents the subconscious from being healed. That is at least how I understand things currently.

  51. Panteleimon Paschal Avatar
    Panteleimon Paschal

    Thank you for this article Father. As a relatively new Orthodox Christian and therapist in training, I find it extremely difficult to keep terms straight. I appreciate one of your above comments which mentioned searching for the sense of meaning when some writers lump terms together while others painfully distinguish between terms like “heart” and “nous.” I am painfully aware of my desire for a sense of clarity but appreciate your approach to pray and look for the sense of what is said.

    I typically tell my clients that I try to work with people at levels of body, mind (cognitions), and spirit. Would you say these distinctions even make sense? And am I kidding myself to think I could work with someone at all levels? Using some of your other answers above, I’d expect a suggestion towards praying for the Lord to intercede so that I remember it is not really me who does anything. Yet, it really is me who is there in the room with others. This leads me to your title: which me is really there in the room? At the best of times it is the God-given self and the worst of times it is my “helping ego,” nonetheless, both are always present to a certain extent. Maybe effective therapy is cutting through the other’s ego (using psychology to do this) to embrace the soul, as Fr Stephen Muse says: face-to-face at the altar of the heart. I am not sure about these things. Lord have mercy!

  52. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Just would like to assert for you, Matthew, that Fathers Thomas Keating, William Meninger, and Basil Penington developed the modern practice of Centering Prayer essentially based on Penington’s experience of Mt. Athos (at least as I understand it). It was a way to develop a modern practice (essentially as revival for the West of an ancient Christian one) for the young who were clearly looking for meditative, numinous experience in faith and turning to Buddhism, etc. What Keating writes stems from this process.

  53. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Panteleimon,
    I’m a strong supporter of good therapy/therapists. I get nervous, admittedly, when therapists talk about the “spiritual life,” in that I’m never sure what they mean by it – and many often get in it with very little theological training. I might add that clergy sometimes practice psychological therapy without knowing what they’re doing either.

    As a priest, I never think that I can “help” in the spiritual life. I hear confession, and give counsel for good practices in the Orthodox life – but it really is up to God to do the work in them. Helping people deal with trauma/shame/neuroses, etc. is deeply important. The modern tendency in psychology is to help people be happy – but that can have a very amoral basis, or a morality that shifts and changes like a chameleon. I have sometimes warned people who ask for “spiritual direction” that what I suggest might very well make them miserable. From an Orthodox perspective – suffering is an inherent part of the Christian life.

    Like Hippocrates of old, however, I like the rule of thumb: “First, do no harm.”

  54. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    Back in the day, I read Penington’s account of his time on Mt. Athos. For what it’s worth, it just fell “off” somehow. Could have just been me.

  55. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Fr. Stephen, in my long journey from cradle Orthodox, to coming back “home” in a state of conversion where I could receive what was always there, I was fortunate to learn that what I read in the then-popular books of Keating a few decades ago was all rooted where I was rooted in the first place! As a very young layperson, I had no idea, and that strange journey to faith was the way I learned. For that mysterious process I’m grateful.

    Just a note: one book that made a great deal of difference for me at that time was Kyriakos Markides’ book, “Mountain of Silence.” Perhaps Matthew or others might find that useful and accessible. Of course Father will have the best recommendations, and Father Stephen if you have reservations about that one, please do let us know.

  56. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, maybe Pennington was always wanting to “adapt” his experience. In other words, Pennington never intended to be changed by it. First rule of evaluating evidence is the bias of the source. In this case that is Pennington’s bias.

    Maybe that is what you are sensing..

  57. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Mountain of Silence was excellent Janine. Markides’ story is also really inspiring. I think any one, especially a sceptical academic, would benefit from hearing his personal testimony which I believe is part of the book? I even sent a copy of the book to a non-Orthodox friend.

    I am currently reading Keating. Great stuff. At the heart, his central thesis seems to be rather Orthodox.

  58. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Ì am a Catholic for a variety of reasons.

    I love Orthodoxy for a variety of reasons.

    I’ll leave it at that. This blog remains a blessing.

  59. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Hello Panteleimon.

    I have been receiving secular psychological therapy consistently for more than one year now. At first, as a pretty conservative Christian, I was very sceptical Now, though, I believe even for religious people it can be immensely helpful.

    My therapist respects my beliefs (I think she is a Buddhist) and sometimes asks questions about them. I find that sometimes, though, we talk past one another. I guess that is to be expected given our different worldviews.

    All in all I think your chosen occupation is so valuable. God has used psychological therapy for so much good in my life.

    Now it’s time to go deeper …

  60. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    I’m so glad you enjoyed the Markides book, Matthew

  61. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Janine! 😁

  62. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    I liked the Markides book as well.

  63. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    You’re probably right.

  64. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Just because someone has “bias” is simply human. No one escapes it except perhaps the greatest of saints.

  65. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father Stephen, thank you, that’s good to know (that you liked the Markides book).

  66. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    How can you prove he had a bias Michael? You seem to be implying just because the method didn’t cause him to become Orthodox he must have not been sincere.

    As a Catholic I disagree with what seems to be your conclusion.

  67. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Every one has a bias, Matthew, even me. It is endemic to the human condition. May be Fr. Stephen had the bias, not Pennington. Maybe they both did but there are three things likely to create strong bias, sex, faith and money.

    The question is how to evaluate bias: to what extent, in what direction and/or to what degree.

    I have a strong bias for the theology of the Orthodox Church from sources deemed trustworthy by the Orthodox Church.

    I came to that conclusion by searching New Age Christian, Traditional and Evangelical Protestant and RCC. Roughly in that order until I was received by the Church. The RCC came in and out.

    The Person of Jesus Christ, His Mother and the Saints are shown to me in authenticity and depth every year in the Orthodox Church.

    Every year the poverty of the other Christian Traditions as to the Persons with whom we commune are shown to me as well.

    Hear me when I say the Persons not just the Theology. Especially The Holy Theotokos.
    They reveal themselves through worship, thanksgiving and repentance and Joy in a way they are not available anywhere else for the most part.

    God be merciful to each of us.

  68. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Matthew, I ask your forgiveness: I led you into a common mistake concerning bias, at least from the time I studied history. I thank you though that you do reveal the bias against evaluating bias properly, especially in one’s own heart.
    It must be rigorous for a true priest or minister before God.
    The only strength I know that comes close to overcoming is the Mercy of Christ on the Cross: “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do!”

    His mercy alone destroys the power and darkness of sinful bias. At the beginning of the Orthodox Sacrament of Confession where it is written: ” Know not that you confess not to me, a sinner, but to Christ Himself… “. He assures freedom from all the bias in my own heart I divulge whether of flesh, word or deed.

    He is merciful. Even to sinners like me.

  69. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Michael. The opportunity to learn from one another is a valuable one. Peace to you.

  70. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Reading and rereading this article.

    In John 12:24 Jesus says, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.” I see this verse deeply connected to this article. I understand the Christological meaning in the verse, but like a fractal the verse has a meaning or shape/contour that unfolds across multiple scales. I think each of our lives are like seeds that have been sown. As seeds our lives have a mystical quality, something that defies reduction, unknowable even to ourselves. Would it be too much to say that each person is a nascent hypostatic mystery–a mystery even for the sower of the seed: “The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows—how, he himself does not know.” In other words, what might be implied in this is that God isn’t in the business of flattening the person out with his capacity for inexhaustible knowledge–he leaves room for us to be something of a mystery even to himself. And to Father Stephen’s point in the article THAT mystery which we ourselves are is at the heart of “who” and “what” is saved.

    I import into my reading of the verse something from my experience of existential alienation and dis-integration where the verse says “unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone.” That is to say, apart from an acceptance of kenosis the natural course of this life will yield disorder, entropy, dis-integration, and alienation. Kenosis is the “living death” that brings life. I can’t help but see a universal principle in John 12 which is that kenosis–loving self-sacrifice–multiplies life. Creation itself is at its heart kenosis.

    The more I read this article the more I like it. As always I am probably full of crap, but these are some of the reflections I have had and thought I might share.

    Thank you, Father, for this.

  71. christa maria dolejsi Avatar
    christa maria dolejsi

    Thank you for blessing my day, Fr. stephen and all. Especially the philokalia quote and addressing the the individualistic uses of vocabulary and language…Yes. And for books recommendations….

  72. Andrew Avatar
    Andrew

    There’s much hope here, and a little fear (for me at least). To imagine a ‘me’ in the world to come, that isn’t ensnared in all the weaknesses and sins that characterize my life is…difficult, to say the least. These things feel like such an inescapable part of who I am that it can seem unimaginable that there can be a me without them. The scene from Lewis’s Great Divorce comes to mind of the grumbler who was, or very nearly, no longer a person but only a grumble as she’d become so consumed by her grumbling. Though, there was hope even there,

    “If there is a real woman-even the least trace of one-still there inside the grumbling, it can be brought to life again. If there’s one wee spark under all those ashes, we’ll blow it till the whole pile is red and clear. “

  73. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Andrew,
    Indeed! I too think about all the ash that I call ‘me’. It is my hope and prayer, that with any humility given to me, by the grace of God, there might be a spark remaining.

  74. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Andrew,
    That is one of my favorite scenes in Lewis’ wonderful little book. I have been a pastor for over 40 years. In all of that time, I never encountered anyone who did not have at least a “wee spark” (I think the angels must have been Scottish) beneath the ashes. It has served as a reminder to me, across the years, to attend to the spark and nurture it.

  75. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Andrew and Dee: fortunately there is no isolated “me”. We are each intra-connected with each other and all that is Holy including Holy people like the Theotokos, the saints and angels. Plus those here and folks as my reposed friend, Fr. Moses Berry of blessed memory.

  76. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    Mark 13:33-36, Christ exclaims, “Watch”. In the synchronicity of reading this passage and being vexed with skewed words, and conflated meanings, rather than read this passage as only a warning about the end of times, I also read it as “guard your heart” or “guard your soul”. Perhaps this is just me reading my concerns into it.

    In my catechumen days, when I asked about how to read the scriptures, now in this case the “Old” Testament scriptures, I was particularly concerned about provoking God’s anger. So often we might read about God’s vengeance and anger. When I asked about this, one thing I was told (or believe that I was told) was that God doesn’t have feelings or “doesn’t change His mind” that God is an eternal Being never changing.

    The implication of the time, was that when we say God, we are talking about the Trinity, the three persons. However, Christ, fully human and fully God, I’m assuming did have emotions. And He changed in His human Self, from baby to adult.

    If we should deign to speak of God’s mind, (in the words of the philosopher who referenced God’s essence) how do we know it? Us being the created and the changeable, and God the eternal? Surely we might only know of God though His grace, His workings. Should we assume more than this? Does the sanctity of our rationality (if we might say such even among the saints) allow such capacity? And if we are not saints, what is our capacity then?

    Please forgive me, I want to watch, in the words of our Lord. But always appropriate discernment is needed by our spiritual fathers.

  77. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Yes – Christ was “changeable” in the expression of His humanity, though, despite such changes “the same yesterday, today, and forever.” When we know God in His energies (workings, doings), we can say that we know God, not just know “of” Him. But that involves a knowing that is more than the sort of discursive reasoning, observation that we often use day-to-day. It includes a participation. That is the heart of “theoria,” or contemplation. Not to “think about” but to participate.

  78. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    Thank you for this differentiation!

  79. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    I ask for one more thought. Based on your answer, this might explain why someone without, let’s say born without, rational faculties, may still know God. Is this correct?

  80. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Yes, absolutely!

  81. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    Thank you so much for your helpful answers!

  82. Fred Carpenter Avatar
    Fred Carpenter

    “It is in such moments that we see paradise and gain courage to renew our struggle”

    Father Stephen,
    Thank you kindly for your identity article on working out our thoughts on our salvation journey, excellent stuff. I couldn’t help but think of Solzhinitsyn in the gulag, being tortured, then stricken with cancer, clearly Job-like and worse maybe, I don’t know- and yet, in the midst of this seemingly impossible situation, he opens his eyes and starts to see, ask questions of how he had contributed to his situation, how he had acted against his own conscience, actions he knew to be wrong. He asked himself how many times he had lied and betrayed himself or others, how he could be remade and atoned for in the Soviet gulag. He took himself apart, bit by bit, letting more and more of the old, harmful part die and then watched and listened to those around him, people he could admire and use as a model of inspiration and resurrected himself, right there, then in the gulag, and began to write The Gulag Archipelago, which ultimately demolished the credibility of communism as it got into the hands of the people. I remember when he came here, his Harvard “Men Have Forgotten God” speech. Then he went back home ( he had several meetings with Putin before his death.)
    Footnote: in 2018 Putin commemorated a 100th Anniversary for Solzhinitsyn and had a ceremony and erected a statute in his name as well as encouraged Russians to read the works of Solzhinitsyn.
    Thank you again, glad I have discovered you as I just started attending an Orthodox church and now I have your writings to learn from.

  83. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Fred,
    We have a great deal in common in our admiration of Solzhenitsyn! May God direct your steps!

  84. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, to folks investigating the Church from Protestant communities it might seem a strange question but; How does Mary help us address our shame?

  85. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    It’s an interesting question, to which I don’t have an answer. Indeed, such an answer might well lead to intellectualizing the Theotokos in a wrong way. My experience with her is that people should be patient and let her explain herself. After a couple of years of Orthodox liturgical experience, those answers begin to reveal themselves.

  86. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    Michael, my first thought was of how a Mother lovingly accepts her children. She does not shame them, even in their foolishness, but gently nurtures them beyond such things.

    I know that no mothers are perfect and some have adverse relationships with their own, but my understanding of the Theotokos is one of comfortable vulnerability. Her revealing helps safely heal us in so many ways. There have been times I have been ashamed to pray to Jesus, but able to turn to her. She always guides me safely to Him. Just my thoughts.

  87. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Byron, thank you. That helps

    Father, I.am not attempting to intellectualize her. She is a real person that guides folks, invites folks and reminds folks how to pray, how to approach and commune with her Son, our Lord. She has always been quite welcoming to me as I come into the presence of Jesus.

    When she has lead me to repentance, she has always been pretty specific.

    Maybe shame just tends to wither in her presence?

    As I reflect, that seems the right direction but incomplete.

  88. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    I did not mean to suggest that you were attempting to intellectualize her. What I was saying was that putting it into words might tempt someone into that exercise. What I thought about replying might explain what I meant. Does she help us with our shame: Ask her.

    No doubt she does. And probably by teaching us humility – which is the antidote to shame. But, I find that asking her to help – helps.

  89. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Yes, indeed. So I shall.

    Let me ask: Is not the temptation of modernity to “intellectualize” everything in order to both control and diminish? “There is no need for Your God. We have it all under control. We have, or soon will have an explanation for everything!’

  90. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Re the Theotokos

    Byron thank you, these things are a part of my experience with her also.

    Father I do understand about intellectualizing her, and the way you put it about encountering and letting her reveal is a perfect encapsulation of my ongoing experience.

    But I also — despite hesitation about intellecualizing — desperately wanted to add “humility” and so you did.

    There is that line (it’s actually in a Greek popular song of a couple of decades ago) about her compassion: ” you turn no one away.” Sometimes I think that surely this compassion was something shared between mother and Son. I know we attribute it as a characteristic of God, but I also think in a very human way, the human Jesus shared this at His mother’s knee somehow. (My 2cents of course)

    I love the note of “vulnerability” in Byron’s post. She is also for e very much protector and teacher as woman, and important element I needed and need.

  91. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    These thoughts on the Theotokos are very helpful. I had many intellectual problems with her as I was coming out of Protestantism. Meeting her in the liturgy has been very helpful in dealing with these issues.

  92. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Matthew, what a wonderful experience “Meeting her in the Liturgy…”

    Thank you for sharing that.

  93. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thank you Michael!

    I will be flying to Athens tomorrow morning. My time on Skiathos Island is coming to an end. On my last stroll through the harbor town, as I approached the church, I said to my wife “I hope we meet the priest”. As I turned the corner, there he was with a Greek-American woman we met a few days earlier! I asked her to tell the priest that I enjoyed the island and that I like the church. The priest listened and then rushed away to find a book for me. He gave me a book about a special place on the island that I was unable to visit. He told me his name is Fr. George. I so enjoyed meeting him several times in town. I think at first he thought I was a crazy tourist, but after about our third meeting I think he sensed my sincerity. What a wonderful way to end my island adventure. Christos Anesti!

  94. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Matthew, will you be staying in Athens for a few days?

  95. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Sadly Janine … only for a few hours. The bulk of our holiday was the island experience. I hope to visit the Areopagus tomorrow, though, in Athens.

  96. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    A pity you cannot see some churches but you will enjoy walking near the Acropolis (where the Areospagos is). If you are downtown near Syntagma Sq there is a tiny 16th cent Church underneath the hotel Electra Metropolis about a block away; the Church is called Aghia Dynami (Holy Power, an icon of the Theotokos).

  97. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks SO much Janine!

  98. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    The central icon on our prayer wall is More Spacious Than the Heavens. My brother mounted it for me years ago.
    The icon is special because it is also a revelation of Jesus Christ. “Her womb became more spacious than the heavens and contained the uncontainable God.

    Christ shown a child in size blessing us and emenating from her womb with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

    The mystery of the Church is contained in that icon.

    Since I am retired, I get to be in her presence a lot by God’s Grace.

  99. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    She deals with shame when submitted to her by acknowledging it and then replacing it with Joy — leading me to Thanksgiving in Christ.

    That is the answer she gave me.

  100. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    YW Matthew, there are loads of remarkable landmark historical churches all around downtown. The central Metropolitan cathedral is a couple of blocks down from the little one I mentioned. Safe and good travels.

    Father, Michael, et al, when I ask [her] about shame, I just feel one word, “Love.” But of course that contains a multitude

    Michael I love that icon too

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