The Difficult Task of True Theology


Nothing is as difficult as true theology. Simply saying something correct is beside the point. Correctness does not rise to the level of theology. Theology, rightly done, is a path towards union with God. It is absolutely more than an academic exercise. Theology is not the recitation of correct facts, it is the apprehension and statement of Beauty.

It is this aspect of liturgical life that makes it truly theological. It is also the failure of most contemporary Christian worship efforts. Gimmicks, emotional manipulation and a musical culture that barely rises above kitsch reveal nothing of God – and embarrassingly much about us.

This is equally a failure of theological argumentation in most quarters. Authoritative sources, managed like so-many hands of trump cards, are deftly played in order to dominate and destroy. But words have a divine origin, having preceded all of creation. They have a right relationship with every created thing. Just as in the beginning, every word brought something into existence, so every word, in right relationship, reveals creation to be what it truly is, and in so doing, makes God known, even present.

Theology looks for the words, in the right relationship, in the right order, at the right time. Written, spoken, sung, carved, inscribed, printed or lighting a digital screen, they share and commune the relationship, in the right order, at the right time to the right one. Sometimes a single word suffices.

But every word has its own meaning, or expresses and carries the reality of a thing-in-relation. All of creation is the words God spoke and speaks and waits in expectation to be heard.

And this is the task of theology: to hear the words God speaks and write them down.

There were also other words spoken – not in the beginning but soon: “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

These are counter-words, non-words. Words that abuse: God; said; you; eat; tree; garden. The right words, in the wrong order, to the wrong person, at the wrong time. A death of theology, or a theology of death.

I break here for a more prosaic set of thoughts. Writing theology, in whatever manner, must always strive towards repeating the words of God. There are many things that use “God-words.” Sometimes they can even be the words of the Creed or Councils or beloved Fathers. They can give life or they breed death. They can lift up or crush.

I frequently encounter a form of spiritual abuse: the use of true words to do untrue things. Words never stand by themselves. You cannot simply place them before someone and proclaim: “The text says!” That a statement is “true” can also be used to pretend that its every use is justified – that truth “de-weaponizes” any statement. Tragically, the very truth of a statement can give it the power that makes its use as a weapon so devastating. The reality is that “truth” wielded in such a fashion ceases to be the truth.

When Christians appropriately observe that “truth is a Person,” they should recognize that this extends far beyond the recognition that Christ Himself is the Truth. It should recognize that mere factual truth is insufficient. It is relational (a fundamental reality of what it means to be Person). It must be the right thing in the right way at the right time, etc. In short, this is the union of truth and love. For the Christ who is the Truth, is also the God who is love, and they cannot be separated.

The truth that is love is the content of another word: good. Thus when St. Paul says that “all things work together for good,” he is describing the apokatastasis (Acts 3:21), God’s unfolding salvation of the whole of creation. That unfolding is a movement towards truth in love. All created things are becoming more fully what they are meant to be in relationship with God and all things around them. This movement is “good.”

Theology, at its most profound level, participates in this same movement. It reveals, through the shared word, the good work of God. In doing this, it invites the one who understands to participate, through self-offering and acceptance, in the life and work of the good God. And that is true beauty.

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a retired Archpriest of the Orthodox Church in America. He is also author of Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, and Face to Face: Knowing God Beyond Our Shame, as well as the Glory to God podcast series on Ancient Faith Radio.



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105 responses to “The Difficult Task of True Theology”

  1. Sean Avatar
    Sean

    Thank you for this, Father. This helps with a tension I’ve wondered about for a long time, between the truth in/of words and the fact that language changes all the time.

    I appreciate the understanding of language itself as a sacrament, in that (rightly used) it reveals things to be what they are.

  2. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Ah…a confusion in my mind: I have heard it said that only the Greek language can be truly and fully Orthodox. Since I have zero faculty for any language other than American English, that statement has always left me sad. Yet, it appears here obliquely.

    The only defense I have is my experience which becomes even more tricky

  3. Andrew Avatar
    Andrew

    “There are many things that use “God-words.” Sometimes they can even be the words of the Creed or Councils or beloved Fathers. They can give life or they breed death. They can lift up or crush.”

    Thank you Father. I was having a conversation with my priest recently that I think touched on this. One of the challenges I’ve encountered since becoming Orthodox over a decade ago is that the vast majority of the writing we have is from monastics to other monastics. It can be very difficult to parse through what’s useful for me as a layman and what I should leave aside.

    Even the ‘right word’ to one person, can be the wrong word for another in a different situation. I heard a story (I forget the source) that captured this well. An elder on Mt. Athos was visited by a pilgrim seeking guidance, for which he received a clear word. Afterward, the disciple of the elder, who was present for the conversation, approached his elder saying, “I asked you that same question last week and you gave me a completely different answer!”. The elder replied, “That was last week, and that was to you.”

  4. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Andrew, I think sometimes we make a fetish out of “receiving a word”. The vast majority, including me, will never be blessed in that way.

    So, what are we to do? Follow the life of the Church as best we can: Pray, fast, repent, rejoice in thanksgiving in all things, attend the Holy Mysteries to receive His Body and Blood as often as we can.

    Doing these things in trust and thanksgiving as we can seems to be a sufficient challenge for most.

    Forgive me, a sinner.

  5. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    I do not hear that. Orthodoxy has spoken mulitple languages from the beginning and continues to this day. Each language brings some insight with it. It is true, however, that there is a large contribution made by Greek-speaking writers/theologians. I would add to that there is a large contribution made by Arabic/Syriac speaking writers/theologians that is tremendously important. It was Russian writers who first spoke to my heart. And on it goes.

  6. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Andrew,
    In many ways, we read too much and bring our modern tendencies with us when we read. I read much less now than at any time in my life…and I’m more selective.

  7. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorba_the_Greek

    I guess I am allergic to any mention of ‘Greek’ unless it is Zorba.

  8. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    Perhaps the best theology comes from the person deeply familiar with silence. A quote I heard recently makes this point well.

    “God is speaking all things into being right now, and if God would cease this speaking, we’d all disappear. So, we’re trying to become so silent that we can hear God speaking us into being.” —James Finley

  9. Burt Noyes Avatar
    Burt Noyes

    Thank you Father. Just sent this article to a few friends. I’m going to read it a few more times myself.

  10. Ook Avatar
    Ook

    Thank you Father,
    With this posting, I have been thinking also of your assertion that a theologian must be a poet.
    Perhaps one could say that the only real poets are theologians, in their own way? This often is not Christian, of course, but I’m starting to see theology in all poetry, including bad theology in bad poetry.

    And about purely academic theology perhaps the less said the better.

  11. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    What part does theology have in actual personal encounters with Jesus, His Mother, the Holy Angels and the Saints?

    Does it help us to sort out the authentic vs the bogus?

    How does it help us to elevate our hearts and minds in the Sacraments?

    I know it does but sometimes I loose track of how.

  12. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father, there is so much in this essay I wish I could just re-quote, but I’ll just do these:
    But words have a divine origin, having preceded all of creation. They have a right relationship with every created thing. Just as in the beginning, every word brought something into existence, so every word, in right relationship, reveals creation to be what it truly is, and in so doing, makes God known, even present.

    Theology looks for the words, in the right relationship, in the right order, at the right time.

    These words are amazing!! They open up so many things to think about and learn better . . . thank you!

  13. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    And just this: And this is the task of theology: to hear the words God speaks and write them down

    This is something to strive to do, and to grow in understanding of how to do it. Amen and thanks again.

  14. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Andrew, your final comment regarding the word given one day to one person, differing from the next is so true. It seems most powerfully given to us in the final chapter of John’s Gospel — John 21:20-22

  15. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Forgive me for so many successive comments, but in terms of languages I would like to put in a plug for the King James Version of the Bible (and perhaps successors like NKJV), for the beauty of its language and for the most part excellence of translation. Just an example I always go to, “comprehend” in John 1:5. That word “comprehend” is a really good translation of the Greek — which means both to “take in” or comprise, as well as to understand. In terms of its language, its sheer poetry and unforgettable turns of phrase rival Shakespeare for quotation. My 2cents again.

  16. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Janine, I second you vote for the KJV. Being a fan of Shakespeare first, I am the language drew me in.

  17. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    I second the connection between theology and poetry. Beauty is often, maybe always, conveyed to us via symbol and metaphor — the poet’s sock-in-trade.

  18. Eugene Detweiler Avatar
    Eugene Detweiler

    Once God spoke my name to me. That one word encapsulated my life to that moment, and bestowed an enduring hope for the future. In that moment I became aware of God (the ineffable) as Father, with the understanding that He knew me in the present as though I were the child of my youth. After reading this post, “The Difficult Task of Theology,” I believe I can say, it was as though all of the words spoken to me (theologically) to that point of my life were parsed, and only that which was true remained, not as words, but as the experience of life in its essence.

    I love this blog. Thank you to everyone who contributes.

  19. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    Fr. Stephen,
    When you mentioned the apokatastasis, it reminded me that Ancient Faith will host a discussion on universalism this week. Will you be part of that conversation?

  20. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Owen,
    I will not be. It’s a topic that I generally refrain from discussing. I know very little about it and only have hope.

  21. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Ook,
    St. Porphyrios famously said that “in order to be a Christian, one must first become a poet.” Which is the line that I quote from time to time. (Just to give a saint his due).

  22. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Owen, et al
    I think that what I would hope for readers to hear in this posting is the importance of a single word, of a group of words, of their setting, relationship, etc. It requires listening. St. Ignatius of Antioch said that “He who possesses the word of Jesus, is truly able to hear even His very silence…”

  23. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    Something I love about Orthodox theology is it’s both/and approach. Both faith and works. Both nature and grace. Both God and man. Both prayer and philosophy. Unity is emphasized instead of division. This aspect drew me to the Church.

    I think this point applies to academic theology as well. Some academics clearly infuse their rigorous work with prayer and spirituality. Frs. Andrew Louth and John Behr come to mind. Academic theology can be dry and unedifying, but it doesn’t have to be, imo.

  24. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    As mentioned above and in your article, there is a lot to be said about the context of words uttered, and even the tone of voice when uttered.

    Sometimes, it isn’t easy to hear the tone in a blog’s comment stream. Sometimes, a comment’s submission interstices with others in the timing of submission, which would not necessarily have been a response to the immediately previous comment. Sometimes, comments held in moderation come out after the conversation has flowed on but might have contributed to the conversation informational. These things cannot always be controlled as we would like.

    Sometimes these happen in face to face conversation where something said is misunderstood. It takes love to iron out the misunderstandings.

    As you said in your article above, Father, theology can be used as a bludgeon, and if it is done so, it is no longer theology. And as I have noted in a previous post to another comment stream, I have been taught that theology is not separate from prayer in Orthodoxy.

    Father, I have been taught that the difference between confessions is one of theology. And I have also been taught that the difference between Orthodoxy and other confessions is one of ‘right worship’.

    When we speak of theological differences, these can be said in such a way to draw a line in the sand between people, to separate people, to make ‘one’ an ‘other’. I want to be candid now to say here that I have no intention of making one an ‘other’ in this blog of anyone who appears to genuinely seek our Lord. At the same time, I find it difficult to respond without seeming confrontational if there is one who makes a contrast or similarity that is not true. For various reasons, depending on the context, the lack of truth misdirects understandings, as I have been seeing in my area in Alaska.

    Therefore, for my own learning and edification, I do not turn to any online site to learn about Orthodoxy. Generally, I come here or to specific sites suggested by a priest (that’s actually how I came to learn about this blog). I have not come here to learn about Protestantism or Roman Catholicism, but I have learned about the history and theology that keep them separate. And importantly, I have learned about salvation here, through the Orthodox Church.

    To the best of my knowledge (since I do not comb the Internet for such answers), the Orthodox Church has not officially attempted to unite with the Roman Catholic Church. Also, to the best of my knowledge, there is no unofficial attempt to initiate such a union through our hierarchs. But if I’m mistaken, I would like to learn about it here.

    Christ indeed says He wants us to be one. Yet I do not want the Orthodox Church to be one with other confessions if it is to result that there is no longer a truly Orthodox Church. Please forgive me if this seems confrontational. To the best of my ability, I’m speaking from my heart. I became a Christian only because of the existence of the Orthodox Church and her teachings, not because of Protestant or Roman Catholic teachings or doings. I did not find a “home”. I found Christ. Some parishes within the Orthodox Church are undoubtedly different in some ways from others, but the teachings remain intact. Please forgive me.

    Love in Christ,
    Dee

  25. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    For those that do not know the book, Zorba, the Greek, was an attempt by the author Kanzantzakis to present Nietzchean dualism and a way of combining them.

    Nietzchean dualism is still a very strong philosophy in our culture but it is a philosophy of sin. Only the Incarnation and the Cross overcome and heal the soul of such darkness.

  26. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    I think that what I would hope for readers to hear in this posting is the importance of a single word, of a group of words, of their setting, relationship, etc. It requires listening. St. Ignatius of Antioch said that “He who possesses the word of Jesus, is truly able to hear even His very silence…”

    Indeed, I believe listening is itself an art, Father. And in silence, many words can be spoken. We (is it a cultural thing? or a modernist thing?) are not taught how to listen in and to silence. So often, someone jumps in to speak before another finishes speaking.

    It may seem odd (and ironic), but I have the icon “Holy Silence” in my icon prayer corner. When I pray, I ask it to speak to me and keep me silent when I need to be. It is the icon I look to in the silent pause between each prayer: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us.

  27. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    I should be careful, I wrote “it” in reference to an icon of Christ. In English ‘it’ is inanimate or non-human. An icon of Christ is neither inanimate nor non-human and is difficult for me to put into words. I suppose this is why we have the theology of icons.

  28. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Dee, I never read you as confrontational but as one who tries to be gentle, even when expressing a differing opinion … and also honest.

    “Holy Silence” I have never encountered as an icon!! I will have find it, thank you!!

  29. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Janine,
    Thank you so much for your kind words!

    Here is the icon in my prayer corner. There are different versions. I love the child-like, angle-like quality of Christ painted in this icon.

    https://legacyicons.com/christ-blessed-silence-icon-x100/

  30. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thank you Dee. Beautiful and interesting icon!

  31. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    There are “official” conversations with others – none of which go beyond the level of discussion. Actually, the Orthodox engagement with Protestants and Catholics, which, more or less, goes back to around 1948, Those conversations have actually had a real impact on others – sharing the Orthodox understanding. Both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict were clearly influenced by Orthodox thought.

    But, generally, it’s good to be at peace about such things. Orthodoxy’s largest concerns at present are relationships within Orthodoxy itself.

  32. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Thank you so much , Father.

  33. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Is not one task of true theology to communicate the mercy of the Holy Trinity while at the same time communicating the higher personal reality that permeates everyone and everything that sin blocks us from.

  34. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    One of many.

  35. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    Following up on your response to Michael and my question about mercy, how is it that the nation and church, which are claimed to be separate in the West, have been locked together so tightly in other areas of the globe (referring to Orthodoxy). Now, as opposed the centuries past, communication and travel is so easy conducted around the globe.

    Is it that national governments require such unification? Or is this some facet of Orthodox theology?

    For example, I’ve read that St Sophrony was worried about divisions forming in his community in Essex centered around current events in nations, where nuns or monks in their monastery would be influenced, and their internal relationships would be strained or broken.

    I know there is a long history of national Orthodox churches. How is it that there isn’t more of a push in Orthodoxy to separate such influences of power? Is it a fault of our theology? For example, I frequently see the two-headed eagle as an emblem in Orthodox Churches. Is this an indication of a theological push to keep the nation and church unified?

    I’m just praying for the survival of the Church. I’ll not say much about the (US or other) government here because I don’t want to foment unhelpful volatility.

  36. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Please pardon my words got changed up by a software program:
    In my first sentence, I meant to refer to your response to me and Michael’s comment about mercy.

  37. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Sorry for so many comments. Continuing on my thought, I’m reading St Isaac of Nineveh, second part, translation by Sebastion Brock. There is a chapter on interior humility. Pride is often named as the quintessential sin. Yet there seems to be a disjoint of sorts regarding the use of Bishop and Patriarchal “thrones.”

    Are the thrones a reflection of our theology or of the historical connection to the nation-church relationship?

  38. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Dee,
    The separation of state and Church occurred in the west with Reformation. In the east the belief that the ruler was ordained by God to take care of earthly things while the Church ruled “spiritual” things never fully went away even after the Communist overthrow of the Czar in Russia. It was also a symbol of the freedom of the Church to rule in her sphere without submitting to the State.

  39. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    The whole history of the Church’s relationship to what we now call the “state” is very complex – far more so than most people are aware of. The notion of a “secular” state is quite modern – only beginning after the Reformation (and not at all immediately). America was the first officially “secular” state, and even that was not an immediate understanding.

    The modern ideas have become so commonplace that we have a hard time understanding anything else. That the state is somehow established by God, and thus somehow related to the Church is the older notion and has not died out, at least as a memory, in many Orthodox lands. However, the spread of American culture across the world has hastened the rise of “secular” states.

    Orthodoxy spent a lot of its time under the foot of the Ottoman Empire. The Church was subject to the state, and the state was Muslim. Some Orthodox countries did not get out from under the Ottomans until the 20th century – so this is all quite new – and is still feeling its way forward.

    The “thrones” outside the altar is something that grew up post-Byzantium (I understand) and represents the Emperor’s throne, now occupied by the Bishop. In Slavic lands, the bishop’s throne is inside the altar which is the older position. It’s simply the chair from which the bishop presides.

    One of the more surprising undertakings in my reading after I became Orthodox was to study the history of the Balkans and the Church under the Ottomans. It was a very important bit of history simply ignored in any classes I had ever taken – but very helpful for understanding a fair amount of our modern issues.

  40. Carol Avatar
    Carol

    Like one who looks into a shop window curious about what’s inside, here I am looking into Orthodoxy. My early childhood was grounded in the Lutheran church, baptized and confirmed. Later I fell in with the baptists, who required more water to prove my baptism and commitment to Jesus. Marriage took us to an abusive non denominational, then to the Presbyterians and the westminster confession. We eventually landed in with the calvinist baptists and the London Baptist confession. It’s been a tiring journey, theology has generally been presented as an academic pursuit. Something one must master in order to prove your faith/commitment/ salvation.
    So when I read this:
    “It is absolutely more than an academic exercise. Theology is not the recitation of correct facts, it is the apprehension and statement of Beauty.”

    I was left with no words, because this has been so much of what we heard throughout our nearly 30 yrs of marriage.

    When I heard the gospel twisted in the calvinist church I dove into studying all I could about reformed theology so I would have sound reason to understand it and knowledge to reject it.

    I wonder if any of you has a book they could recommend for someone looking into understanding orthodoxy.

    The husband would never attend a liturgical church, so…but for myself I have a hunger to understand more of what you are writing about. We do go to a tiny country Baptist church that’s normal in the sense it’s not calvinist and for that I’m thankful. But 3 songs, a sermon and an alter call…it just makes me want more of… I don’t know exactly, perhaps reverence, confession, and yes communion…with the understanding of it as I learned it when a child in the Lutheran church.

    This is a bit of a ramble but I do appreciate your blog and the comments they are really encouraging. Thanks for the opportunity to stand outside and look in.

  41. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, I have not done the study it deserves, but you are quite right about the Church under the Ottomans. A piece of history that is still effecting our Orthodox attitude toward “rulers”. We Antiochians are still there to some extent. With Met. Saba taking over here because of our lack of qualified bishops, it will be interesting.
    There is movement toward finding a local successor to Met. Saba that he is directing.

  42. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    Would you suggest I read about the history of the Balkans and the Church under the Ottomans? Admittedly, I haven’t read much about that history. Would it help me to understand the ecclesiastical relationships I’m inquiring about? If so, which book or books might you recommend?

  43. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    It’s hard to say. I sometimes think that the addage, “people who eat sausage shouldn’t look at how it is made,” applies somewhat. I frequently say that “Orthodoxy is messy,” or, I could say, “Our history is very messy.” I could add to that – that Orthodox history has, for the better part, been dominated by oppressive powers or interfering Western powers (to say the least). Your native American roots might well understand that.

    First, I think it’s remarkable that Orthodoxy has survived all of that.

    I’m not sure what books I would recommend. I’ll look around.

  44. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Carol,
    I would recommend my small book, Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, as a good place to start. I’m not sure about some of the books out there that do critical examinations of the non-Orthodox. But, keep looking.

  45. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    Your responses are very helpful. Thank you.

  46. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Carol,
    I would recommend Father Stephen’s second book (Face to Face) after you have read his first book. In both, he describes meaningful comparisons.

    Also, it’s worth mentioning that receiving the sacrament of the Eucharist is the heart of our Liturgy. I’m not sure why someone of another confession would object to a Liturgical service. However, I don’t come from another confession to enable me to understand what might seem foreign to someone else coming from another confession, either. While it seems so trivial to me now, the only things that stumped me at first were the hats and beards.

  47. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Thanks again, Father, for mentioning the Balkan history under the Ottomans. I just did a little cursory reading and have a better idea of how some of our current affairs, particularly around Church and governance and what occurred under the Ottomans, had their beginnings. The history of the area is very sad and disturbing. It is indeed amazing that the Orthodox Church survived at all–by the hand of God no doubt.

  48. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    It’s a frightful bit of history, and it is ignored in our Western historical consciousness. It is a living history in Orthodox experience. I’ve slowly learned to pay attention and to make allowance…and to become someone who prays for all.

  49. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    “to make allowance…and to become someone who prays for all.
    Indeed, Father, again, thanks for this.

  50. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    I do not try to bring politics into this discourse, but I am Armenian, my grandparents survived the first genocide of this century, under Ottoman rule. One and a half million Christian Armenians were killed. My husband is Greek, his family were Pontic Greeks from the Black Sea Area, hundreds of thousands of whom were also killed in that same genocidal period as the Ottomans basically cleansed or genocided Christian populations (also including Assyrian Christians). (In 1922, Greece negotiated a population exchange to avoid further massacre.) It’s an interesting period for Americans, as this occasion of the Armenian Genocide became the first overseas mission of the American Red Cross, and Americans were very involved in relief efforts at the time.

    But I write this to note that neo-Ottomanism is the political ethic of the present Turkish government, and threatening expansionist rhetoric is now commonplace against Greece and other neighbors, and especially threatening to Christian population. Keep in mind Turkey is a NATO country. North Syria has recently (in the past couple of decades) been once again depleted of Christian populations; the same for other Arabic countries (notably Iraq). Our own US policies unfortunately exacerbate this effect.

    I write this simply so people notice as they pay attention to past and present history. I am sorry if it’s too much politics for the blog, Father.

    Of note: one of the most fascinating things to observe in Greece are the icons and saints of central Athens. I am currently visiting. In the Metropolitan cathedral, the great icon of the Theotokos is Panagia Eleutherotria (“the liberator”). This word “eleutheria” means freedom, and the slogan of the revolution against the Ottomans was “eleutheria h thanatos” — freedom or death. (Also meaningful for Americans in our own history influencing this period, it is the national motto of Greece today.) So, one must understand the many-fingered significance of Theotokos in this role. Moreover, the great saint of central Athens is St. Philothei. She was a young widow who was quite wealthy; she lived under Ottoman rule. She became a nun and developed monasteries with her property. She habitually ransomed people made slaves (women taken into harems, and also men enslaved); she trained women to either do domestic work or make and sell wares so they could earn a living otherwise; she even set up a marketplace for women which remains the central area of small shops in the city (esp for tourism). She was martyred by being beaten and dying of her injuries by those sent to punish her for ransoming and hiding slaves. Her crypt is in the metropolitan cathedral. Also in the central cathedral is the body of Gregory V who was the martyred Ecumenical Patriarch at the time of the Greek revolution against the Ottomans, and because of the revolution was hung from the Patriarchal gates by the Ottoman state. Although there is historical tension between those liberation movements and the Church, in the fullness of the mix of national consciousness and Orthodoxy these meanings remain significant, and in my opinion will continue to mystically imbue history. So one cannot divorce notions of freedom and liberation from the faith; and this understanding, should we contemplate it, continues to inform us about what it means to find who we are in Christ, and our understanding of truth and how it is linked to our souls and faith. We can see this extended from the beginning of Christian martyrdom IMO.

  51. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Sorry, I meant to say first genocide of the 20th century; my age speaking 🙂

    Father, I also mean to say please feel free to delete if you deem it best. I don’t want to start a politics war/debate where it’s not welcome

  52. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    The Church carries the memories and wounds if these great sufferings within itself – both as it has marked the lives of its members – as well as in the on-going sufferings of Christ. For those of us who are converts to Orthodoxy, we often fail to understand that all of this experience is part of the Church’s inheritance. At its worst, some want to take it up as though it gives points to argue. But, in point of fact, it gives us things to be lived and endured – that the wounds can only be healed and transformed in love.

    Many of the present difficulties of the Church (various tensions, etc.) are the legacy of those many sufferings. They are to be endured, transformed by love and prayer.

    The life and faith of the martyrs is the life of Christ made manifest within us. As St. Paul says, “So then, death works in us, but life in you, for which cause we do not faint.”

  53. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father, thank you so much! So wise!
    You write:
    “The Church carries the memories and wounds if these great sufferings within itself – both as it has marked the lives of its members – as well as in the on-going sufferings of Christ. . . . At its worst, some want to take it up as though it gives points to argue. But, in point of fact, it gives us things to be lived and endured – that the wounds can only be healed and transformed in love.

    Many of the present difficulties of the Church (various tensions, etc.) are the legacy of those many sufferings. They are to be endured, transformed by love and prayer.

    The life and faith of the martyrs is the life of Christ made manifest within us. As St. Paul says, “So then, death works in us, but life in you, for which cause we do not faint.”

    Isn’t it you (or am I mixing up something else?) who writes often that the Cross reveals things as they truly are? I think that is what you are saying here also… and the healing in love is, I believe, the ultimate word. I have thought a lot about my grandparents’ and others eye witness experiences of such unthinkable suffering, and I think what you say can be the only truth in the ongoing journey. (Because in some way it’s everyone’s journey.) Amen!

  54. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    The world has a long, brutal history of violence and retaliation. The cry for “justice” is insatiable (things never get balanced). The Cross is truly the end of history, where ever sin – every act of violence and evil is allowed to rest – to which Christ says, “Father, forgive them. They do not know what they’re doing.” It is the end of all things. There we can rest – “Come unto me all who labor and are heavy-burdened and I will give you rest.”

  55. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Janine,
    Thank you so much for sharing your family’s history. I believe it is a story that needs to be told. The US has tendencies to obfuscate such history for various political purposes, including the US involvement that often inflames such atrocities. And I also know from experience that such trauma takes generations to heal.

    As Father has said, the open discussion helps to reveal some of the underlying tensions that fester and lead to current affairs in that vicinity of the world.

    Thank you again, dear Janine.

  56. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Janine, thank you. I needed to here again about what happened. You enlarged my heart.

  57. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thank you so much Father, Dee, and Michael!

  58. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    When I was spending time with the Thai Buddhists in St. Louis I heard one of the monks translate part of the Dhammapada as meditation as the way to an “Enlightened investigation of the truth.” The interpretation that was given to the passage was that the truth is unrecognizable to the unenlightened. Become enlightened and the truth is what you see. Which is more important? To have mastered a description of the sunset or to see the sunset and feel the beauty? No one one can see the sunset for you. You must see it for yourself. Therefore, focus on those practices that enlighten and the truth will follow. I liked that a lot. So much so I had it tattooed on my arm…in the original Sanskrit.

    In Orthodoxy there are analogous sentiments, but nothing like this and the reason is that ultimately what is sought isn’t ‘the ability to see what is real’ or even ‘the ability to become what is real.’ What is sought is a Trinity of Persons that are not known except by revelation. In Buddhism and, naturally, Hinduism enlightenment follows a natural law. That isn’t Orthodoxy. The Orthodox have traditions of asceticism, hesychasm, and calendrical observances, but these are not methods for controlling a natural process that leads to the Trinity. Otherwise the Apostle’s statement would be meaningless, “Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.” There is also the burdensome question of someone who labors for hours and hours in prayer, performs 1000s of prostrations, goes days without food, and on and on and on and yet that person may find themselves thinking, “Why isn’t this working?”

    For me, I have found myself haunted by discouragement with my utter lack of any and all “spiritual advancement.” At the end of the day, I might be the kind of servant who buries his talent and gives it back begrudgingly in the end. I sometimes feel envious at how confident so many seem to be.

    I guess we’ll all find out soon enough.

  59. Alan Avatar
    Alan

    Father, is the picture from the Tennessee river? It looks like the bridge near Neyland.

  60. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Simon,
    Sorry to be delayed in posting your comment – I’ve been driving back home from Memphis all day!

    I only have a reading knowledge of Buddhism and can’t really comment on it. As to Orthodox experience – there’s that recent article I posted on Orthodoxy and religious experience. The faith ultimately rests on the reality of the historical event of the resurrection. We say, “Christ is risen!” But we do not say, “Christ is risen and has appeared to me!” (unless He has). But there are religious claims that flow from that – including that of the persons of the Trinity. We do not describe ourselves as “experiencing” God as Trinity. We know the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit. But we don’t know the Father apart from the Son, and the Holy Spirit does not speak of the things concerning Himself. So, in effect, it is Christ that we “know” in our experience. Trinity is how we have been taught to speak of God – and it shapes the prayers of the Church…but it’s not something derived from specific experiences – other than that Jesus is none other than God-in-the-flesh – who taught us to pray, etc.

    So, those are my two-cents worth. I agree that we’ll all find out soon enough.

  61. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Alan,
    It is, indeed. It’s from several years back. The boy is one of my grandsons, who is standing on the deck of a replica of one of Columbus’ ships (the Pinta) that was visiting in Knoxville. I love the look of wonder on his face!

  62. Alan Avatar
    Alan

    Yes! Great photo Father!

  63. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Simon, my 2 cents: Your description of Buddhism seems to me a proclamation that Truth is revealed. Same in Orthodoxy. The question is what is revealed and how the revelation is received.

    In Orthodoxy a person reveals Himself to our heart. There is not an idea revealed to our mind; despite all of the books of theology — at best they accurately describe the Person so we are not confused.

    Getting to that point has taken me almost 60 years since my mother told me “God is real, you need to find Him”.

    I have known one person I believe to be a saint who suffered terribly in his body; a couple of priests (including Fr. Stephen) who seem to describe His reality well, but I still have to open my heart. Hard work of repentance in all of its forms and thanksgiving even as I seem to fail.

    What my mother did not tell me is that finding God is not enough….

  64. Merry Bauman Avatar
    Merry Bauman

    Dee-I always enjoy your insightful comments.
    Carol- Orthodox churches stream on youtube and you can visit churches online too. Our church is at 10 am central time. St George Orthodox Cathedral in Wichita,Kansas. You can see our service for yourself. Communion is blanked out but you get the rest of the service. Visiting an Orthodox church is a great experience. I hope you will see for yourself.

  65. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Just wanted to add a note regarding how historical experience shapes worship experience. I grew up in a church where every Sunday, during one particular hymn (a repeated plea, “Lord have mercy” interspersed with prayers for various sufferings of the world) the whole older generation of my grandparents would sob (they generally sat in the same area of the church). It’s something you don’t forget seeing tears stream down the wizened tough face of a man who’s done every job in the world to survive. Anyway that was part of church was when I was a kid. Doesn’t happen today; it was just that survivors’ generation. Note that this hymn also was an occasion to consider one’s own sins before communion.

  66. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    We know the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit. But we don’t know the Father apart from the Son, and the Holy Spirit does not speak of the things concerning Himself.

    Thank you for putting this so clearly Father.

  67. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Fr. Stephen,

    You made my point. What you wrote is something I’ve read many times regarding what this or that person of the Trinity does or does not do. The oikonomia or economy of the Trinity. Grounding your faith in something historical is not life changing or transformative because ultimately we weren’t there. We dont really know. And we are taking someone else’s word for it, Tradition, Fathers, Saints, etc. Being able to detail the roles of the persons of the Trinity–in my lowly opinion–isn’t even interesting.

    Ultimately personal experience is the only way to truly know anything because it is the only way we are stimulated to grow, respond, and hopefully transform. Without it everything is academic or at best aesthetic.

  68. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Simon,
    I am not saying that there is no personal experience – but that it is not the basis. If Christ was raised from the dead (whether I was there or not) it makes all the difference. If Christ was not raised from the dead (whether I was there or not) it makes all the difference.

    I have lots of personal experiences related to Christ, but none of them would be significant were He not raised from the dead. My experience is not and cannot be the center of the universe and its meaning.

  69. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Simon,

    You said, “Grounding your faith in something historical is not life changing or transformative because ultimately we weren’t there.”

    “Grounding my faith” would mean keeping the commandments of Christ because He has been raised from the dead and made manifest as God-made-man. As I’ve noted, there are many “experiences,” and they are transformative – but the “ground” is not in the constant winds blowing stuff of daily experience. That simply leaves us tossed to-and-fro. Or trapped in our heads.

  70. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Simon, it is impossible to learn anything without trusting others, even if they have been dead along time. Every community is built on the premise that those who have gone before knew something of value to us now.

    The only reason my experience means anything or I can understand it is because it is in the context of what is Traditioned, i.e. evaluated, collated and passed on by the elders gone before. My reliance on experience is largely because I am lazy. Our Lord has been exceedingly gracious to me.

    Janine’s testimony is evidence of real Tradition, IMO.

    I could go on but I won’t

  71. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    I have lots of what we might call spiritual experiences and I rely on them to help me with insight into the path God desires for me. However, all of Tradition (and I mean everything) grounds me, affirms that I’m not just making things up, and helps me to make certain I’m on a good path. It also warns me of pitfalls on this journey, and invigorated and informs my prayers and my thinking. Besides the experiences of that great cloud of witnesses surround, inform, uplift, and feed me spiritually and intellectually.

  72. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Simon, and All
    We have many kinds of experiences. I have moments of transcendent awareness in the Divine Liturgy, for example, where connections from the deepest parts of me to all things outside of me seem to just fall in place. But, someone could tell me that they had a wonderful walk in the woods and were meditating on the connection of all things – to which I would reply, “How pleasant!”

    We can even have virtual “out of the body” experiences that are amazing (and yet we’re back in the body slogging through the day when all is said and done). What makes any of our experiences, including the non-transcendental, and including the moment-by-moment struggle to love everyone and everything, is the historical reality of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I judge the reports of that event to be reliable – reliable enough to stake my life on them (where I would certainly be in good company from throughout the ages). That single event tells me that loving my enemy isn’t just a struggle to be a nice person – but is grounded in the deepest reality – and the commandments of that Reality.

    But, I hear in Simon’s thoughts the desire for a transformative experience – something that pierces through the veil and struggles of our lives and makes the changes that we crave (legitimately). I understand that. St. Paul probably was looking for some kind of experience when he prayed for God to remove the “thorn in the flesh” that tormented him. Sometimes a person is knocked from their horse, and sometimes they simply understand that God’s grace must be sufficient.

    I would agree that it would be easier and less debateable and such if there were this sort of experience that did the trick. But, interestingly, even after seeing everything(!) that Christ did – from walking on the water to raising the dead feeding the 5 thousand, etc., Simon Peter still denied even knowing Him. It’s not that he actually thought he didn’t know Him – but the transformation of his life was far from complete. The “experience” that Jesus directed him towards was simple: “Feed my sheep.” I take that as another way of saying: “Love everyone. Keep the commandments.”

  73. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    That single event tells me that loving my enemy isn’t just a struggle to be a nice person – but is grounded in the deepest reality – and the commandments of that Reality. Powerful!

  74. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, this conversation has led me to realize I need more foundation. I have read “On the Incarnation” and studied it. What can you recommend for me to read?

  75. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Oh and your books.

  76. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    Olivier Clément’s The Roots of Christian Mysticism is a richly rewarding collection and commentary on primary texts. I read it over and over.

  77. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    I am sure 8th Day Books will have it. (Best bookstore in the world). Thank you Father.

  78. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Simon, I want to thank you for convicting me that I needed to read more Orthodox literature. I have gotten a lot out of your posts here. Enough so that I have to go more deeply and broadly

  79. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Janine,
    Your description of your grandparents’ generation in church was so moving. When I read your words I could see them. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. Indeed the Liturgy gives us so much. We help each other on the path.

  80. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    Sometimes, it is the ‘thorn’ itself that helps us to remember God. And sometimes it is the thorn itself that enables us to speak to Christ, heart to heart.

  81. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Dee, thanks so much; indeed I think as a kid it gave me the sense of church as a safe space, kind of like the catacombs, the place where people were in community, with God, and the love of Jesus Christ. (Tragic irony, many saw their villagers put into the local church and then it was set fire; sorry to be graphic.) Often the Orthodox speak of Church as hospital; as an older adult now I think of those tears in Church as helping to heal the memories of things they saw as children. There is no substitute for what Church can do. The communion truly goes so far beyond just us, and linked to what Father said above about Reality.

    So true about the thorn, too.

    Thanks Dee and Michael also for your words

  82. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Second thought — Gosh, without that thorn we wouldn’t have St. Paul’s revelation about grace in weakness

    “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 2 Cor 12:9

  83. Sinnika Avatar
    Sinnika

    Dee,
    “Sometimes, it is the THORN itself that helps us to remember God”

    Yes, it is very true that pain and suffering helps us to remember God and to turn to Him.

    Pain insists of being heard, it is God’s megaphone, when pain is loud enough it is impossible to ignore and we instinctively turn to Our Father for help.

    In the modern world, pain and suffering is to be avoided. But Tradition teaches us that if pain and sufferings are accepted as God’s medicine and with patience, then God will use it for good.
    In this, Christ Jesus is our greatest example, the Way He opened up for us involves suffering and pain in this life.

  84. Sinnika Avatar
    Sinnika

    Fr Stephen,
    Concerning the difference between a Buddhist view of the way of life and a Christian view, I heard recently an explanation that sounded true.

    The Buddhist sees life as a circular movement, you live and you die and then you come back to the world again ( sorry I do not remember exactly but it was something like this) while to a Christian the door to death is of no-return and leads to Eternity, which is life Before and AFTER time and is very different.

    I take hope and comfort in the words of the prophet Isaiah “I will restore the time that you lost” I have no idea of how that can be done, but I trust that everything happens for a reason and that the reason is for Good.
    God bless you and your ministry.

  85. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Sinnika,
    May God continue to strengthen you and give you grace in all things!

  86. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Sinnika, when my mother told me I had to find God, she also share the idea of the dynamic spiral. It is a theme that may Native American cultures use in their symbolism as they dance and chant their prayers. Life is always moving up even as it seems the same things keep moving round.

    In Orthodox practice and thought and practice the dynamic of the Cross: moving up through sacrifice and suffering to the Joy of the Resurrection.

    Mt 4:17: “Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.”

  87. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    In Calvinism the only movement is down and maybe Jesus will lift you up after you die.

  88. David Kontur Avatar
    David Kontur

    Greetings, Father Stephen,
    Thank you so much for this reflection and all of the tremendous amount of work you have put into this blog over the years. I was very struck by your statement above: “Tragically, the very truth of a statement can give it the power that makes its use as a weapon so devastating. The reality is that “truth” wielded in such a fashion ceases to be the truth.”
    I am currently reading through the Book of Job again, and your statement above seems to be the very trap that Job’s friends fall into. While there are words of wisdom and truth within the speeches of Job’s friends, the way these words are being used quickly descends into forms of self-justification and blame. The same trap that we often fall into.

  89. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    There is another recent post that adds depth and context to this post: “Things You Can’t Invent”.

  90. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    Simon,
    I must admit that, in spite of all that has been said in the thread above, I wholly agree with what you say about verifying religious realities via our personal experience. St Augustine’s book, On the Trinity, gives some beautiful analogies that help me a lot. He points out that in our experience of the world, there is always (1) a knower, (2) that which is known, and (3) the knowledge which “connects” these things. Again, there is a lover, that which is loved, and the love “between” them. (Think of Christ’s baptism.) This is the mystery of subject and object in our world which we experience every day. And the simple act of knowing and/or loving unveils a trinitarian structure of all human experience. This has been helpful for me to ground Christian teachings in the natural world.

    As to Christ’s Resurrection, I believe we do not really know he is risen until we ourselves are risen with him, intimately sharing in God’s reality of New Life. This is knowledge by experience, imo. Concepts and historical records are mere fingers pointing at this reality which, at its heart, is known only through participation. Not to mention the cycles of the seasons, the processes of life emerging from death, etc., that we see in the natural world. These are the lived realities which, for me, keep Christianity from devolving into an arbitrary mythology, in opposition to the natural world, rejecting new scientific discoveries and clinging to a set of unchanging traditions despite new human discoveries. Rather, our faith can be seen as profoundly corresponding to the way things actually are. At St Paul said, Christ is everything and in everything.

  91. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    My last comment begs the question of how the story of Christ in Holy Scripture relates to our personal experience of Reality.

    In his book East of Eden, John Steinbeck writes, “If a story is not about the hearer he will not listen. And I here make a rule–a great and lasting story is about everyone or it will not last. The strange and foreign is not interesting–only the deeply personal and familiar.”

    The Gospel is a mirror. But, at present, we see in a mirror rather dimly…. the face of Jesus Christ.

  92. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Owen,
    Nevertheless. When the faithful in Corinth were struggling with the resurrection (in various ways), St. Paul gave a clear answer. In 1Cor. 15, he gives them “that which I have received” (i.e. the Tradition (paradosis) that had been handed down to him. It was the creedal statement of the historical facts of the resurrection (dead, buried, raised), and then the historical record of the witnesses to whom the resurrected Christ appeared: Cephas, the 12, all the Apostles, James, then to St. Paul (last of all, he said).

    Because Christ has truly been raised from the dead, and is truly Lord and God, it is also true that we can “know” Him in a variety of ways – sacramentally, in the Scriptures, in the logoi of all created things, and, in some manner, “noetically.” But, it should be noted what St. Paul placed first and above everything else.

    I wrote the earlier article on experience and Orthodoxy precisely to refute what I think is an overly psychologized and emotional version of the gospel that has come to displace the historical to some degree. So, I remain cautious about this.

  93. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Owen,
    I think this comment treats the “story of Christ in Holy Scripture” is if it were “mere” story (thus the relevance of Steinbeck). The gospel is something more – something else. “Story” is not the right category for its understanding. What happened in the death and resurrection of Christ are cosmic and historic. They transcend “story” to such a degree that they can be seen “imaged” across the entirety of world literature and more (even in nature itself).

  94. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    As I have said, I have relied primarily on experience in my 37 years in the Church. However, I have always tried to test my experience within the Tradition.
    When I was acting, I had to learn the lines of my character, know all of the positions I and others were standing as well as when to move from one to the other.

    Then, I had to discover in my own heart and mind how to communicate the meaning of all of that to a sometimes hostile audience. Anywhere from Shakespeare to baudy summer reviews.

    Other than the obvious fact that the “script” is on a much higher level and my soul is at stake, the process is remarkably similar.

    Two legitimate motivations seem be key: 1. Giving glory to God for all things; 2. Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (Mt. 4:17).I
    I could give examples but that would get tedious but the process can be witnessed and engaged during any Divine Liturgy. That includes we Groundlings going in and out for bathroom breaks and to calm crying children or just gritting our teeth because of physical pain.

    “For communion with God is life, and separation from God is death.” Irenaeus of Lyons

  95. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    Father,
    Thank you kindly for the response about 1 Cor 15. You may have already covered this, but how do we reconcile what you said with Galatians 1, where Paul vigorously denies receiving the gospel from human lips, but rather through a direct revelation of Christ? When Jesus was revealed “in” him – noetically – he did not consult “flesh and blood” nor the apostles. I just wonder, if asked, would St Paul prioritize historical facts over noetic experience? Thanks again.

  96. Owen Kelly Avatar
    Owen Kelly

    Father,
    I am not familiar with the term “mere story.” By no means did I intend to imply the gospel is untrue. I just meant that it assumes a narrative form, unlike, say, the Gospel of Thomas. Steinbeck was speaking specifically about Cain and Abel, a story he believed to have significance for all of humanity.

  97. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Owen, forgive me, Steinbeck was my favorite author from junior high until several years after college when I began looking for Jesus and beginning to approach repentance — a journey that began in 1972. He has become increasingly shallow to me as that journey.

    We are each Cain and each Abel. In our hearts and that can only be healed through repentance (a life long work sustained by the Grace of Jesus)

    The Orthodox Church is the only place in which repentance is taught and practiced that I have found. New Age, Asian, Protestant, RC. Only the Society of Friends came close, and I was close to going with them.

    I am stubborn and opinionated so for about 35 years I have been kicking against the pricks and often refusing to repent, but Jesus has been merciful anyway.

    Mt 4:17 is a description of reality, not only a promise to come. Combined with Jesus response to the Pharisees in Luke 17:21 “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you;” and the rest flows from that–all the Sacraments and prayer, fasting and almsgiving. Despite our many deficiencies, the Orthodox Church is the only place to find the fullness of Jesus and His teaching.

    “Taste and see that the Lord is good.”

    “Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.”

  98. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Owen,
    It’s a good practice to interpret the Scriptures by using the more clear to read the less clear. 1Cor. 15 is quite clear – and does not require any guess work. It fits entirely with the pattern of the transmission of the oral tradition. It is also seen as a key passage for looking at the resurrection. The Galatains passage is less clear. It is not quite certain what St. Paul is driving at. However, it does not seem to be the case that he is suggesting a non-historical apprehension as somehow superior to the historical.

    He does not explain in that passage the actual content of what he’s describing, etc. Fact is, scholars have scratched their heads about it for ever so long.

    St. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15, made a direct appeal to the authoritative Tradition and recited it. That’s how he answered the question viz. the resurrection.

    There is a caution in Orthodoxy concerning what we might describe as “noetic experience.” Sometimes it is unclear whether what we are experiencing is “noetic” or just delusional. It’s why we have the Liturgy, confession, and the larger community.

    I think of all of this (quite often) through comparison with marriage (which seems pretty Biblical). I love my wife. I have a profound experience of her, having been married for nearly 50 years. But that relationship is grounded in the long patient reality of the sacrament. I made promises (I was married in a Western Church). Over those 50 years, my emotions and experiences have been variable – they are not the “rock” of my marriage. They’re important and not of no value – but they’re not its basis. The basis must be deeper, more solid.

    The same is true in my relationship with Christ. The historical facts of His crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection were long ago accepted as settled. I accepted them as the basis of my life. On any given day, I may or may not have an experience of God, the world, etc., that is simply transcendent and beyond words. For that I’m grateful. But I’m just as grateful for every mundane-appearing moment. Every moment is filled with the possibility to love, to forgive, to serve. Christ is in all things (as you noted). But He told us to live a day at a time without taking thought for tomorrow, etc. But again, the basis of all of this is something that is eternal and transcendent that has been made manifest in historical time and place. The Incarnation is pivotal. We would not know Him without it.

  99. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Owen,
    I thought of another example. When I was a young man, I was set upon by some Mormon missionaries. I listened to them (a mistake) and considered their claims. Interestingly, they urged me to “pray” about their claims. God would assure me of their truth, they said. Well, He did nothing of the sort. But, their claims were also quite easily refuted by even the slightest historical examination. They are a cult, a false religion, with overwhelming evidence of their false origins, etc. We are not at the mercy of our own subjectivity – nor should we leave ourselves to such madness.

    When I go to an auto mechanic, he doesn’t tell me that I need new spark plugs and that if I’ll just pray about it, God will show me that he’s telling the truth.

    There is such a thing as noetic experience – but it doesn’t exist all by itself. I would say of the Scriptures and the historical witness of the Church of the first generation – that we have sufficient historical evidence to take their claims seriously. Indeed, I find the evidence to be persuasive. I also find it to be very non-cult-like. The small contradictions within various gospel accounts, for example, are consistent with historical reliability and the common variables of human reporting. The early Church’s toleration of such variations (4 gospels, not 1) is an indication of health rather than mind control or the things we normally see associated with cults, etc.

    As I noted in my article on experience, however, modern Evangelical Christianity has helped foster an imbalance and been an important element in the creation of a sort of insane culture of “experience.”

  100. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    As I reflect on your words and consider my weaknesses, I realize I spend so much time in my head. To some extent, I’m forced to do so because of my job. While it shouldn’t, it is relatively easy to seek experiences that stimulate my mind or take my mind off of my daily concerns.

    I find it interesting if one seeks God, it is often because we might not have a conscious experience (mental/noetic) of His presence and wish to have that experience. Yet it is also true (as you have said) that St. Isaac states that when one finds oneself in this situation (feeling an absence of God), one must read the scriptures, not seek experiences. He claims that discernment from the scriptures brings about illumination. And if the reading of scriptures does not help, he advises getting some sleep!

    He also mentions that our struggles will continue until our ‘departure’ and that we must make peace with this. And such peace is difficult in our culture and society. We are bombarded with media that attempts to direct us to activities (or consumption) to rectify our discomfort (and our grief).

    I’m reading “The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian” in the references above.

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  3. Thanks Michael and Fr. Stephen. It must be challenging being Orthodox in the Bible Belt, though maybe not?

  4. I want to testify as it is about the time of night when Jesus, if I am awake, when He…

  5. All true, Father but in the mile of road that St. George parking lot fronts on, there are three other…


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