Nostalgia for Paradise

This is an excerpt from the small book, Nostalgia for Paradise, by Dr. Alexander Kalomiros. It’s good for the soul.

When the ascetical life of a Christian and the privations that he imposes upon himself are beyond the measure of grace that he has been given, a void is created in his soul. Either it will lead him to sin, or it will make him perverse, proud, hard, and unmerciful to his brothers. The wise man puts greater effort into positive virtues and less into negative virtues. Examples of positive virtues are prayer, worship, meditation, study, participation in the Body and Blood of Christ, love for God. In general, their action brings us into contact with God. On the other hand, negative virtues are activities such as fasting, self-denial and self-deprivation, abstinence, asceticism in general, and the “thou-shalt-not” kinds of commandments and rules that are essentially directed to ourselves. It is not derogatory to call these negative for, together with the positive virtues, they form the balance that makes up the spiritual life. If the soul is filled with the presence of God, no place remains for sin. The light casts out darkness by its own power without our effort as long as we keep the shutters of our heart open to it.

Do not seek to understand God for it is impossible. Simply open the door of your soul so His presence may fill you and illumine your mind and heart, warm your body, and enter your veins. Theology is not a cerebral knowledge but a living knowlege that is directly relevant to man and sustains and possesses the whole man. A cold, cerebral man cannot know and discourse on divine things, even if his head contains an entire patristic library. He who is not moved by a sunset, a tree, or a bird cannot be stirred even by the Creator of these things. In order to grasp God and be able to talk about Him to others you must be a poetic soul. It means that you must have a heart that is noble, sensitive, and pure. You must be as an ear that is turned to the whisperings of the Infinite, and as an eye that sees through the bottomless depths while all other eyes see only pitch blackness. It is impossible for timorous souls and stingy hearts to discourse on divine things.

The heart that grasps the mysteries is one that is naive enough to think all souls worthy of Paradise, even souls who may have drenched their heart’s life with bitterness. It is a heart that feels and sings like a bird, without caring if there is no one there to hear it. It rejoices over everything that is beautiful, everything that is true, because truth and beauty are two aspects of the same thing and can never be separated. It has compassion for every living thing that is animate or has roots, and even for every seemingly lifeless stone.

It is a modest soul that is out of its waters in the limelight of men but blooms in solitude and quiet. It is a heart free to its very roots, impervious to every kind of pressure, far from every kind of stench, untouched by any kind of chains. It distinguishes truth from false hood with a certain mystic sense. Its every breath offers gratitude for all of God’s works that surround it and for every joy and every affliction, for every possession, and for every privation as well. Crouching humbly on the Cornerstone which is Christ, it drinks unceasingly of the eternal water of Paradise and utters the Name of Him who was and is ever merciful. Such a soul is like a shady tree by the running waters of the Church, with deep roots and a high crown where kindred souls find comfort and refuge in its dense branches.

Such is the true theologian. If anyone wishes to be so named, let him be measured by this measure. Even he who simply wishes to be a disciple of such theologians must walk in their exact footsteps if he desires their words to be echoed in himself, and his eyes to see light.

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a retired Archpriest of the Orthodox Church in America. He is also author of Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, and Face to Face: Knowing God Beyond Our Shame, as well as the Glory to God podcast series on Ancient Faith Radio.



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Comments

46 responses to “Nostalgia for Paradise”

  1. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Simply true and beautiful and good.

    “When the ascetical life of a Christian and the privations that he imposes upon himself are beyond the measure of grace that he has been given, a void is created in his soul. Either it will lead him to sin, or it will make him perverse, proud, hard, and unmerciful to his brothers.”

    I breathed a sign of relief after reading this portion of the text. Thank you.

  2. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Sorry for using this space for a technical question … but …

    Is anyone else experiencing a delay between when they post their comment and when the comment appears in the lastest comments field (as well as under the article being commented on)?

    Normally after I press “post comment”, I am immediately taken to the comment under the article I am commenting on. This has not been the case for some days now.

  3. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    My daughter (who does Web Design professionally) does my IT for the blog. She did some stuff with it this weekend. I’ll let her know that it’s still not fixed. She is in a conference this week. So, be patient…we’ll get it fixed. But I’ll get back to her towards the end of the week and see what can be worked out. Many thanks!

  4. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    How long is the delay?

  5. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    No rush. Thanks Fr. Stephen. Good question about the delay time.

    I´ll let you know …

  6. Mark Spurlock Avatar
    Mark Spurlock

    Likewise, Father Stephen, I did not receive an email when you posted this entry. The notice may have been erroneously filtered as spam, but I checked quarantine, and it’s not in there either.

    Possibly the changes over the weekend broke this feature.

  7. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    Ditto on not receiving the email. I’ll see how long it takes for this post to show!

  8. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    It took around 15-20 minutes to appear.

  9. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Yikes! I’ll relay that.

  10. Jeff Avatar

    Thank you so much! This made my eyes water

  11. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    In my case the negative virtues and positive virtues are being forced together.because of my disease.

    The result is having to make a choice. I can choose to accept them in a negative manner or in a positive manner.

    Joy, laughter and love or as a ascetic trial

  12. Dee of Sts Herman and Olga Avatar
    Dee of Sts Herman and Olga

    Father,
    What is ontological prayer and repentance? I believe this question is relevant to this article. The theologian is one who lives both, I believe. But I believe such is out of my reach.

  13. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    It’s a good question, at the limits of my understanding. Ontological prayer and repentance take us into the very depth of our being. In repentance, it is far deeper than feeling sorry that we did something, or wanting to change, etc. That is psychological repentance (and has value). But, ontological repentance is a change that is so profound that you can never be the same. I don’t think this happens often for most people, but it happens, even if only sometimes. In prayer, it is a depth of union in which we become the prayer, or the prayer becomes us. We say of the Holy Spirit, “Pray Thou in me…” In such prayer, we would wonder whether we are praying or the Spirit is praying within us…and there may very well be no words – just a going forth, an extending of the self towards God.

  14. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    Pure Beauty.

    This is every desire I have had in a very long quest to find God.

    In a comment I made in your last post, I expressed frustration in my expression of joy in Christianity as something that can change a man here and now. And how I have learned to temper myself by using the language of endurance and resignation.

    I believe that a true Christian can experience joy in Christ, here and now in the day to day.

    I grew up in a Christian group that strongly embraced end-time events, David Koresh was an offshoot. And I always knew that unless I felt something in my marrow, I could never intellectually be a martyr. I had to find something deeper than just the intellect.

    I wanted to be this man:
    https://deathtotheworld.com/articles/stop-saying-glory-to-god-for-all-things/

    How do you see St. Francis of Assisi? I’m conflicted. I’ve always found his exhibitionist behavior off-putting, but I resonate with many of his teachings. It may not matter, he’s not Orthodox. But is his ministry useful?

  15. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew W.
    I tend to see St. Francis as a holy fool.

  16. Dee of Sts Herman and Olga Avatar
    Dee of Sts Herman and Olga

    Dear Father thank you so much for your helpful answers. As often as I read St Sophrony and Archimandrite Zacharias, I sometimes stumble and need the illumination you’ve given. Experience of such grace in prayer is the anchor that I pray will come one day.

  17. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Fr. Stephen said:

    “In such prayer, we would wonder whether we are praying or the Spirit is praying within us…and there may very well be no words – just a going forth, an extending of the self towards God.” — Fr. Thomas Keating writes about this in a similar way when he writes about centering prayer.

    Matthew W.:

    I´m wondering two things (if you wouldn´t mind engaging):

    What is it about St. Francis of Assisi´s behaviour that you find exhibitionist and why would his teachings not matter since he was not Orthodox?

  18. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew – and Matthew W,
    I thought I would share a brief anecdote regarding Orthodoxy and St. Francis of Assisi. It was told to me by my Archbishop (Alexander Golitsyn). He was a student at Berkeley back in the day – at the same time as Fr. Seraphim Rose. They only met once. In that meeting, Rose was criticizing St. Francis (the kind of thing that marked some of his earliest thought). Golitsyn rebuked him.

    Of course, neither of them were yet what they were going to be. But I thought Abp. Alexander’s early instincts to have been more reliably Orthodox. There is no virtue in sorting the world into “this is Orthodox” and “I need pay no attention to that.” Even St. Paul quoted pagan poets at certain points (which means he was familiar with their work).

    I think that what is alien to Orthodoxy would be “schools” of spirituality: Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit, etc. Within Orthodox monasticism, there are only monasteries. They do vary from house to house, depending on how the typicon (rule) is lived and adopted. There was, once upon a time, a great debate within medieval Russia between the “non-possessors” and the “possessors” concerning whether monasteries could own land and such. But it was resolved.

    But, it is an extreme position to disregard someone or something holy because it is “not Orthodox.” To do so need not be seen as blurring the proper eccelsiological boundaries of our life. Someone giving away everything, serving the poor, and following Christ is not to be despised nor judged, it seems to me. We risk a diminishment of the soul in such judgments. At the same time, I would caution any fascination (in its original meaning) outside the boundaries of the Church. The line from Proverbs comes to mind: “Drink water from your own cistern.”

  19. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    When I think about this reality (ontological prayer and repentance) I think mostly about grace. St. Sophrony recognized that for most people, what he called a “psychological” approach was likely all they could manage (or would manage) but that this was still salutary. The ontological approach or reality is important and real, but marks a gift of grace that is perhaps more singular.

    In my own life (lived largely in a psychological mode), I can see on reflection, certain singular moments of ontological repentance or prayer. I’m not a monastic or an ascetic. I grew up with a lot of neurotic baggage. My singular moments (upon reflection) have left me changed – sometimes profoundly – but the struggle continues. It is said in the fathers that prayer is a struggle until our dying breath.

    More than anything, I think it is born of love. That which is closest at hand (a spouse, a neighbor, a workmate, etc.) is the most difficult workshop of prayer. May God grant us mercy in all of these struggles.

  20. Roy B Avatar
    Roy B

    Thank you for this.
    The words (describing where our heart needs to be) “Noble” “Sensitive” and “Pure” immediately gave me thoughts of Psalm 15

    This describes a place I long for, in my walk with Jesus. Praise God for His Creation!

  21. Dee of Sts Herman and Olga Avatar
    Dee of Sts Herman and Olga

    Thanks Father for your reassuring words!

  22. Matthew W Avatar
    Matthew W

    I’m sorry, please let me reframe my question.

    Given that I’m on an Eastern Orthodox Website, run by an Eastern Orthodox Priest, and also, that most of us here are here because we want to center ourselves in Eastern Orthodox spiritual formation, how should I read the hagiography of saint Francis of Assisi, a Saint not of this shared communion? Should I read it uncritically in any way, or if I am to use discernment, what should I look out for and consider while consuming this material.

    As to the relationship between this article and my question, there is at least one essay online, easily accessible with a search, that compares St. Francis of Assisi with St. Saraphim of Sarov.

    There are many concerns listed, but the one that I recalled after this article involved St. Francis’s focus on the Negative Virtues as as expressed by Dr. Alexander Kalomiros.

    Which brings my back to my question. Understanding the arguments as to why he would probably never be an Eastern Orthodox Saint, do I take his hagiography as a path, or should I look to learn and understand that even though he might be a good Christian, some of the things he did or said, could be looked at critically through an Eastern Orthodox Christian perspective.

    I hope this clarifies.

  23. Mary Benton Avatar
    Mary Benton

    Hi Fr. Stephen (and other friends),
    I stopped in here this evening after a long absence only to find the same beauty and truth that first brought me to love Orthodoxy. I love the excerpt from “Nostalgia for Paradise” – a poetic soul indeed! (St. Porphyrios also wrote of the Christian’s need to be a poet.) And yes, St. Francis of Assisi was a holy fool if ever there was one.

    I was intrigued by the quote from Proverbs, “Drink water from your own cistern,” given that I continue to drink from two cisterns (Catholic and Orthodox). I see that the Biblical reference was regarding adultery, whereas my thirst is only for the one true God.

    Hope all of you are well.

  24. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    I think I must step back – Whether St. Francis is a recognized St. or not – I will always assume that he resides in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6).

  25. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Mary Benton, and Matthew W.
    Mary, yes, in its chapter context, that proverb (“drink water from your own cistern”) is applied to the issue of adultery. However, the proverb predates that usage and has a wider application. It’s about not “mixing” things.

    Our culture trains us to be consumers. We take a bit of this, a bit of that. Indeed, a hallmark of contemporary Catholicism is its multiform spiritualities – it has adapted itself in a way to create a very broad umbrella under which someone can be a charismatic and speak in tongues, or pray the Jesus Prayer with a woolen prayer rope, or (and on and on). I understand that. When I was an Episcopalian, that was very much the way of things there as well. It meshes pretty seamlessly with our contemporary mindset.

    Orthodoxy itself does not have this mindset. If someone were to ask me (as a priest), “Do the Orthodox pray in tongues?” The answer is, “No” (though I know of a Greek priest who thought we should). It is not something we do. That’s not the same thing as condemning it – but it’s not something we do. Whether it’s a good practice or not is a different conversation. It’s not “our own cistern.”

    St. Francis is an admirable Christian – and a saint according to Catholic teaching. I quoted my Archbishop as defending him. But, as for Franciscan spirituality – if an Orthodox Christian is asking me as a priest – I would say, “That’s not our cistern.” Drink from the well provided in Orthodoxy. It’s deep.

    That’s not meant as a judgment on St. Francis. It’s sort of a way of saying, “We (the Orthodox) don’t really know what all of that is about and it’s not something we’re prepared to bring under the umbrella.” It runs counter to our individualism and our sense of being in charge of our own spirituality. But, that’s part of the Orthodox mind. There were a number of spiritual practices that I gave up when I became Orthodox – not because they had been of no benefit to me, but because they were outside of the Orthodox experience. I have not felt in the least diminished by having left that behind – indeed, the waters within the Orthodox life are so deep I’ll never touch bottom, as they say.

    But, I did not mean to imply an adulterous analogy – and could have perhaps used a different proverb. It was simply the one that came to mind. I see it as a general principle.

    I pray you’re well, too! It was good to hear from you.

    Matthew W.
    I hope my answer to Mary was useful. I think St. Francis is in the heavens as well. I can only point towards what the Tradition has given. It is enough, I think. A very important part of the authentic Orthodox life (sometimes described as an Orthodox phronema) is that we don’t follow our private judgment – we don’t develop a private spirituality. The heart of Orthodoxy is simply the life within a local parish.

  26. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    Thank-You Father.

    Yes.

    Communion. Eucharist.

    Lord have mercy upon us all.

  27. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    Indeed.

  28. Mary Benton Avatar
    Mary Benton

    Thank you, Fr. Stephen, for your kind and helpful response. I do like the proverb, “drink from your own cistern” – there is deep wisdom in this.

    But if God is the only “water” that will quench my thirst, and I hear Him invite me to drink of Him from two cisterns rather than one, how could I refuse? I will drink until I am drunk!

    (Forgive me. I am writing from my poetic soul and the late hour brings out the fool in me. Pay no attention.)

    Blessings to all.

  29. Dee of Sts Herman and Olga Avatar
    Dee of Sts Herman and Olga

    Father,
    Similar to your comment to Mary and Matthew W., we are taught to be aware of and wary of distractions. In our modern culture, there are numerous ways to distract oneself, such as the various topics (or videos) we encounter in the media. In such a context, it can be challenging to keep our focus on the theology, teachings, and traditions of the Orthodox Church. I have often found myself scrolling for entertainment and wondered how I’ve lost so much time on the internet. There is so much to be gained from reading, praying, and participating in the Liturgy in one’s parish. As you have mentioned, the well of Orthodox life is deep enough to never be plumbed.

    Last, as an aside, I believe that your ‘ drink from your own cistern’ quote works quite well insofar as I was also taught that our relationship to the body of Christ, the Church, is similar to marriage. Therefore, it is not appropriate for an Orthodox person to receive communion outside the communion of the Orthodox Church. Similarly, I believe this would also apply to a heart’s focus on spiritual lives outside the Orthodox Church. I think this last statement is hard to explain unless one is immersed in Orthodox life. Father, please correct me if I’m off track. Still, I think this aligns with your thinking: it’s not about deciding whether such lives are holy or not (only Christ is the judge), but about where one’s focus lies (immersed in the spirituality of the Church) and having humility about the use of one’s imagination regarding such lives outside of Orthodox life.

    I think, in particular, your words that the Orthodox do not have a private spirituality are very important and very Orthodox in character. (I hear echoes of St Sophrony’s and Archimandrite Zacharias’ words)

  30. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    I’ll add a small observation. My suggestion that we “drink water from our own cistern” primarily has in view the pattern of our spiritual life. It is grounded in the suggestion that we travel paths that others have traveled before us. That is not to suggest that we ignore everything around us. I not infrequently cite or quote work by non-Orthodox authors, for the simple reason that they do good work and are of use. That has been the pattern of Orthodox teaching from the beginning – there would be no knowledge of ancient pagan philosophers had Orthodox Christians (mostly monks) not copied such works by hand and oil lamp, at great expense. Orthodoxy intentionally embraces the whole world.

  31. Dee of Sts Herman and Olga Avatar
    Dee of Sts Herman and Olga

    Thank you Father! I wholeheartedly agree.

  32. Dee of Sts Herman and Olga Avatar
    Dee of Sts Herman and Olga

    Father,
    I think this relates to your article: Archimandrite Zacharias mentions that in the period when he was studying Orthodox theology, it was a very difficult period for him. He says that intellectual work isn’t very favorable for the activity of the heart. But he also says it is necessary and we have to go through it for a number of years if we are to serve the Church and people. — And he mentioned that if we are to succeed in this (to serve) we must be careful not to lose our humility.

  33. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    Father –

    The various snippets and words of Dr. Alexander Kalomiros, primarily through your blog, but not exclusively, I think, was a motivator that drove me into really trying to grapple with God in the way someone with an Orthodox phronema would grapple with him.

    I have been trying to find more from him, but unfortunately, he seems to be the type of figure that publishers don’t think of as being worth keeping in print, so of the works that he’s written, I can only find his treatise against Ecumenism, “Against False Union”, available.

    And while I’m sure it’s valuable, The snippet above with lines like, “The wise man puts greater effort into positive virtues and less into negative virtues. Examples of positive virtues are prayer, worship, meditation, study, participation in the Body and Blood of Christ, love for God. In general, their action brings us into contact with God.” or “He who is not moved by a sunset, a tree, or a bird cannot be stirred even by the Creator of these things.”, or “The heart that grasps the mysteries is one that is naive enough to think all souls worthy of Paradise, even souls who may have drenched their heart’s life with bitterness.” Are all beautiful.

    Is there a way that you know of where someone might gain access to more of his writings?

    Thank-you.

  34. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew W.,
    Unfortunately, Kalomiros’ writings are mostly out of print and unobtainable. He was a bit of an odd character in some ways. He was a Greek Old Calendarist who also defended a form of evolution. He famously had a written debate with Fr. Seraphim Rose on that topic. It garnered him a very vigorous condemnation as a “heretic” by some rather extreme elements within Orthodoxy…such that you’ll mostly come up with that material if you google his name. That’s unfortunate.

    I assume that what I cannot get from reading one author, will ultimately be found in another (God provides). Wish I could be of help.

  35. Dee of Sts Herman and Olga Avatar
    Dee of Sts Herman and Olga

    Matthew W.
    I don’t know whether I can find more but you’ve (and Fr’s response) put the inspiration into me to search. I also appreciate his writing and even more so now that I’ve learned about his take on evolution and the response to his thoughts. If I find something I will post here.

  36. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    I hope everyone can appreciate my amusement with the fact that I hold both men – Fr. Saraphim Rose and Dr. Alexander Kalomiros in high regard – reconciling them both to each other in my mind. Their correspondence might be fascinating to read.

    Father,
    Thank-you for your encouragement. Keep reading and eventually I’ll find similar quotes (as God provides)… Though I’m reminded of Ecclesiastes 12:12, “Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.” Maybe I’d do better to just go outside…

    Dee,
    Thank-You for your interest as well. I look forward to anything you might find.

  37. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew W,
    His work The Six Dawns that describe his understanding of St. Basil on Creation (in which he puts forth a theistic account of evolution) can be read here: https://www.scribd.com/document/75080212/The-Six-Dawns-by-Dr-Alexander-Kalomiros

  38. Matthew W. Schneider Avatar
    Matthew W. Schneider

    Thank-you Father,

    Though, to be fair, I’ve decided to let the evolution/creation debate rest lightly in my mind for the most part. Provable genetic drift and variation is interesting to follow, and there’s value in the Evolutionary derived taxa for naming things and in giving them a plausible backstory, but I tend to retreat into the symbolism Lawrence R. Farley articulated in his book, “In the Beginning”.

    For what it’s worth, if evolution really is to be believed, Homo Sapiens have been around a lot longer then we have records for – the Genesis stories could be far older than anyone might realize – regardless the fact that they aren’t the oldest written pieces in the Bible. The Patriarchs lived crazy lengths of time, and everything up to Egypt feels Mythic – not in a “we should dismiss it” way, but in a “This is the important stuff that our decedents should know” way.

    Most of the oldest civilizations we know of claim they were the inheritors of far older ones – so, I’m certainly not a young earth creationist, but to me the rest is mystery.

    I hope that makes sense.

  39. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    I gave up any debate about evolution/creation long ago. Obviously, God is the Creator of heaven and earth. Those who worry about evolution/creation issues are asking questions that hold no interest for me.

    That debate was historically a Protestant problem (and some Orthodox seem to have borrowed it). Protestantism of the 19th century was utterly dependent on a Sola Scriptura model, and preferred a literal historical reading of Scripture in that it made the Bible “self-interpreting” so there was no need for a Pope or a Tradition. Just read. But modern evolution theories undermined that approach with Genesis, and the historical/literal readers had built a house on a particular approach to Genesis. Without it, their house of cards was in danger of collapsing.

    That was a problem. But it’s not an Orthodox problem.

    We do not depend on a self-interpreting Scripture. The Scriptures are read through the Tradition as given to the Church. We don’t have to prove it to anyone – it’s simply how we’ve been taught to read. Christ, after the resurrection, taught the Apostles how to read the Scriptures (cf. the Road to Emmaus story). What we see in the Scriptures is Christ – and that’s their point. There have been any number of ways of treating historical claims within the Scriptures (and here I’m referring to the OT) and Orthodoxy has no single approach to such questions. But they’re not the point. The point is Christ.

  40. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    I found this argument elegant –

    “Before the appearance of man on earth, all living things, even the stars of the universe, were dying because of man, in a period when man did not yet exist. Mollusks and fish were dying in the oceans in the first days of creation, not only before man appeared on the sixth day, but much earlier than the appearance of the first reptiles on land on the fifth day. Why were they dying before the existence of man if not because they were connected with him ontologically? If man was not to come from them, why were the fish in the oceans, the reptiles, and the birds of the fifth day eating one another because of the fall? Why would
    nature have to suffer from the beginning, to groan and travail, if not because of the free action of the last creature to appear on the earth, if not because all creatures were connected one with the other in an unbroken natural bond? And what natural bond exists in nature other than genealogy, the fact that we are born one from the other?
    Man’s revolt against God not only had consequences from the appearance of man and after it; it had the same consequences for everyone and everything that lived before it, long before it. It was because of the ontological unity in creation, which is not contingent upon the course of time. Of course, it was not because of some kind of revenge by God. The will of God was nothing but a prescription for life, and man’s revolt against it brought corruptibility and death upon creation for the simple reason that it separated man from the source of life and immortality, which is God. It was man and not God who raised up a wall that separated him from his Creator. And it was this separation that brought corruptibility and death, since life and incorruptibility are God.”

    So just as Life was given by the work of the Second Adam, both forwards and backwards; so death was introduced by the First Adam, both forwards and backwards…

    It does make me wonder about the liminal space between Adam’s creation and his fall.

  41. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew W.
    There’s a very interesting take on the “two creation” in St. Maximus the Confessor that takes all of this further than I can fathom. Here’s a link to an article that ponders some of it: https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2020/11/14/st-maximus-the-confessor-on-the-cosmic-fall/

  42. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Fr. Stephen said:

    “I gave up any debate about evolution/creation long ago. Obviously, God is the Creator of heaven and earth. Those who worry about evolution/creation issues are asking questions that hold no interest for me.”

    I was only minutes ago thinking about evolution and matters of faith on the train! Then I arrive home and discover this comment. For the longest time I wrestled with this topic, but on the train I thought … well … maybe I am wasting my time wrestling. Your comment, Fr. Stephen, seems to confirm my thoughts. I am interested in the origin of human beings, but I am more interested in knowing what the purpose and destiny of all human beings is.

    Fr. Stephen also said:

    “What we see in the Scriptures is Christ – and that’s their point. There have been any number of ways of treating historical claims within the Scriptures (and here I’m referring to the OT) and Orthodoxy has no single approach to such questions. But they’re not the point. The point is Christ.”

    If I had only known this years ago. Ah … anyway …

  43. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    That piece by St. Maximus the Confessor is truly Cosmic in it’s implications. It kind of makes the idea of the cross as, “a moral thing”, childish.

  44. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew W.,
    St. Maximus is often “above my pay grade,” as they say. There’s nothing wrong when we think in “moral” terms (“is this a good thing to do” etc.). It’s when we construct a world and an image of God working from a reward/punishment model that we wind up with a “moral” God who persecutes us, etc.

    I’ve done a fair amount of work over the years with people who struggle with OCD. There, you have a sort of wiring problem in which being hated and persecuted by God can become a sort of “stuck” position. When that is re-enforced by Church teaching, Church becomes just one more “toxic” element in someone’s life. I often wonder if lots of people have some small element of this without actually being “OCD.” Perhaps.

    In Orthodoxy, what we call “apophatic” theology is something of a medicine for this “stuck” imagery. It suggests that we know God by “not knowing” – or knowing God beyond speech. For me, years ago, it meant forgetting a lot of things, going back to square one, and starting precisely with Jesus – I only know God as Christ makes Him known. So, we begin with the Crucified and Risen Christ. “No one has seen God. The Only-Begotten Who is in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.” It helps.

  45. Matthew W. Avatar
    Matthew W.

    I think I can perhaps understand, in a small way, why OCD might trigger oversensitivity to a judgmental God.

    They go through life compulsively doing things pre-rationally, meaning, they might understand the peril more than most of finding themselves having done something they shouldn’t without even having given thought to the idea. I imagine that’s scary.

    How many of the rest of us do things without thinking, only to realize later, that what we did, even if it was innocently done, has caused larger problems.

  46. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew W.
    I think it’s not helpful to speculate about this.

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