The Politics of the Cup

COMMUNION_OF_THE_APOSTLESFlyer small“I don’t know about the Church thing.”

This is a quote from a recent conversation – wonderfully post-modern and summing up the tragedy of modern Christianity. The great failure of Protestant theology (in all forms), despite its wide-ranging thought on the nature of God and human salvation, has been “the Church thing.” The careful parsing of every verse of Scripture pertaining to justification is met with generalities and vagaries when the Scripture speaks of the Church – and particularly when the Scripture speaks of the “One Church.” Modern extremes have sought to push a version of churchless Christianity into the earliest century (cf. Bart Ehrman), only the latest attempt to re-write Christian history in a manner that justifies modern Christian dissonance.

Orthodox Christianity (and Roman Catholicism to a large extent) has resisted this jettisoning or reconfiguring of Church. The result is an abiding scandal within the Christian world – the Orthodox act and speak as though there were no other Church.

I have written on this topic from time to time – and the discussion that follows is always fraught with the tension it creates. Perhaps no topic within Christianity generates more difficulty than the Church. I take this difficulty to be a hallmark of the accuracy of Orthodox thought in the matter. It is salt in a theological wound. The following thoughts will doubtless offer more salt – but the wound is real and cannot be imagined (re-imagined) away.

The early Church struggled for several centuries to rightly confess the God/Manhood of Christ. Expressing the reality of the Incarnation pushed the boundaries of language and gave to the world such words and concepts as “Person.” The failures of the same period also gave the world the most long-lasting schism in Christian history: the division between Oriental and Eastern Orthodoxy. In the modern period, the doctrine of the Church, or rather its absence and distortion, has given rise to a landscape populated with “churches” whose very multiplicity is an icon of human brokenness.

In the Nicene Creed we confess “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.” It is an article of faith no less important than any other phrase within the Creed. That the modern, visible expression of the Church so utterly contradicts this article of the Creed should be a matter of collective shame for Christians. However, the modern solution has been to hide from the shame by changing the meaning of the Creed or simply ignoring it.

A profound example of modern shamelessness is the assault on Eucharistic integrity. St. Irenaeus said, “Our teaching agrees with the Eucharist and the Eucharist confirms our teaching.” From the earliest days, the Church and the Eucharist have been seen as one and the same. We do not think the Church – we eat and drink the Church. This is often described as a eucharistic ecclesiology. In Orthodoxy, this is a redundant phrase, for the Eucharist is the Church and the Church is the Eucharist.

But just as modern Christians “do not get the Church,” so they “do not get the Eucharist.” An individualized, democratic culture sees the Eucharist as an entitlement and the refusal of eucharistic “hospitality” to be an insult to Christian unity. The refusal of eucharistic “hospitality” is not an insult to unity – it is rather the careful and accurate expression the boundary of the Church. The scandal lies within the modern refusal to embrace the unity of the faith. The heedless “eucharistic hospitality” practiced by the denominations is simply an extension of their refusal to take the Church as a serious matter of the faith. Eucharistic hospitality is easy (and cheap) when unity itself has been emptied of meaning. The critique of Orthodox integrity with regard to the Eucharist is nothing less than an assault on the Eucharist itself.

Stanley Hauerwas of Duke University is often described as a “political theologian.” This does not mean that his thought serves the civil definition of politics. Rather, his thought insists that what we do and how we visibly express our lives, the “politics” of our existence, is the most essential expression of theology. St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “You are my epistle, written on the fleshy tables of the heart.” The Church is what theology looks like. I studied with Hauerwas in the late 80’s and early 90’s. When I left the doctoral program to return to parish ministry, I told him that I was leaving the program “in order to do theology.” He understood and had no argument.

Many Christians fail to see the “politics” of their faith. They think one thing and do another (it is another aspect of the “two-storey universe”). Almost nothing is as eloquent an expression of the Church’s life than the “politics of the Cup.” What we do with the Eucharist and how that action displays the inner reality of our life is a deeply “political” expression (in the sense that Hauerwas uses the word).

The one common thread throughout the Protestant Reformation was its opposition to the Church of Rome. Lutheran, Calvinist and Anglican Reforms were all embraced by various rising nation states, not so much for the appeal of the particularities of their teaching, but for their willingness to provide cover for the subjugation of the Church to the political demands of secular rulers.

Those demands are far less transparent in the modern period. The legitimacy of the state is today rooted in democratic theories. Those same theories are legitimized by the individualism of popular theology. Eucharistic hospitality is the sacramental expression of individualism. The Open Cup represents the individual’s relationship with Christ without regard for the Church. It is the unwitting sacrament of the anti-Church.

In the last few decades, the same individualism has taken on great immediacy within a consumerist economy. At the same time, we have seen the rise of arguments for a radically individualized reception of communion, one that no longer insists on Baptism. Only the secret intention of the recipient is required. The Eucharist becomes inert – reduced to the status of an object to be chosen or rejected according to the desire of the individual. It is a consumer’s communion with himself.

Those who separate the Eucharist from the Church also separate themselves from the Church – they seek to eat while “not discerning the body.” The treatment of the Eucharist clearly reflects the treatment of the Church.

The scandal of Orthodox Communion in the modern world is its identification with the Church itself. The Church as Eucharist cannot be consumed as just one more option in an individual’s privileged life. The refusal of eucharistic “hospitality” is, in fact, an act of true hospitality. It is an act that says:

You have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Having come to such a place we “remove our shoes.” Every consumerist demand must fall silent. The individual must yield to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the “assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven.” It rightly shatters the imaginings of modern man and his constant attempt to reinvent what he himself could never make. For the Eucharist is the Church.

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a retired Archpriest of the Orthodox Church in America. He is also author of Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, and Face to Face: Knowing God Beyond Our Shame, as well as the Glory to God podcast series on Ancient Faith Radio.



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Comments

156 responses to “The Politics of the Cup”

  1. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    The filioque is an excellent example of Where Rome is not right about everything. And I do stand corrected

  2. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    Michael, Mother Teresa had that encounter in the gutters of India. Just look a little harder next time. Sometimes even on the road to emmaus it’s hard to encounter him.

  3. Michael Patrick Avatar
    Michael Patrick

    Rome had many champions of the faith.

    The filioque was used to battle Arianism in the West — bad theology unnecessarily and inappropriately was leveraged in the fight against a heresy and became a dogma that Rome later used, unfortunately, against the whole church and her councils.

    Champions and chumps are everywhere. The question for me is, where is the cup?

  4. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    Dino,
    I agree that the role of the Franks is key in the development of the Papacy. Whereas prior to Charlemagne, Old Rome’s largest concern was purity of doctrine, from the beginning of the Frankish influence forward, the arguments begin to shift steadily towards jurisdictional power. It’s subtle at first but grows.

    I think that crowning a second emperor was the first great act of schism – even though it was a political schism. But our modern world is so removed from having any affinity or feel for the role and importance of an emperor that this is completely lost on them. The symphony between Church and Empire – the Church is One – the Empire is One – falls on deaf ears. Of course, there were Christian nations, not part of the Empire (Georgia, for example). And the Franks certainly could and should have made such an argument. But the claim for Charlemagne to be Emperor of the Roman Empire – was both schismatic and part of a larger, failed scheme to conquer the whole of the Empire.

    But the political aims of the Franks were quite clear, and they used the Church rather brutally for those ends. The filioque is indeed the best example. When you go from the clear defense of the Creed by Leo III to the papacy’s eventual championing of the new Creed over the period of a couple of centuries – and you see where the origins of the pressure to change the Creed come from, how can anyone deny that the Frankish kings succeeded in perverting the Papacy? And at the same time, the rhetoric of the Papacy shifts from doctrine to domination. It became the tool of a desire to rule. That’s Romanides’ take, as I understand it, and it’s hard to argue with. Romanides indeed pulls no punches, he also misses no opportunity to throw salt on the wounds…which has often weakened one of the more significant modern Orthodox voices. Pity.

  5. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    Michael Patrick,
    The thing about Arianism in the West is overplayed in an effort to justify the filioque. Charlemagne saw a wedge to use against the East and played his hand for that – not even being put off by the condemnation of a Pope. He was the force behind it, not some hatred of Arianism and love of Nicaea. And his political will (and his successors) eventually triumphed. The filioque is triumphalism – the Cup resides in the Church of Nicaea (not meaning the city, but the Church that has remained faithful to the Council despite the political pressures of Charlemagne’s successors). Follow the Council to the Cup.

  6. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    Without being one bit sarcastic I would say that this is the kind of dialog that’s good for everyone. Time for me to get the history books out again.

  7. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    Leonard,
    In consulting the history books, do remember who is writing the history.

  8. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    leonard, I have no doubt that there are and have been many holy people in the Roman Catholic Church. That is a wonderful grace. I appreciate that and thank God for it. But I also can’t forget that, if memory serves, Mother Theresa leant her name to the petition asking the Pope to declare Mary a part of the Godhead.

    It is simply this: I trust the Orthodox Church on matters of faith and doctrine and know the living presence of our Incarnate Lord each time I am blessed to partake of the Cup. That is also where I experience oneness in a manner that includes the seen and unseen, the past, present and future. I am totally unworthy of such a gift, yet I have been given it. The Orthodox Church is the only place I know it to be.

    I don’t trust the Roman Catholic Church and in fact never in my meanderings was I ever attracted to her. A lot went into that that is supremely unimportant. In the last few years with some reading I have done and the interaction with folks on this blog, I have experienced some new things. That is good.

    Still doesn’t change my overall understanding one bit. Sorry if that offends, it is not meant to. If you find in the Catholic Church what I find in the Orthodox Church, God be praised.

  9. Agnikan Avatar

    Michael, you wrote: “But I also can’t forget that, if memory serves, Mother Theresa leant her name to the petition asking the Pope to declare Mary a part of the Godhead.”

    This is a serious claim. Do you have a source for this?

  10. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    There is an old battle custom amongst certain Native American Plains tribes: the warriors carried with them two long, strong stakes with rawhide rope attached. When they went into battle, they tied the rope to themselves and drove the stakes into the ground so that they would stand their ground against the enemy.

    I am not a very strong or valiant warrior, but I have driven my stakes into the solid, living ground of the Orthodox Church.

    May God strengthen us all.

  11. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    No, it was a long time ago (late 80’s) There were a number of high profile women religious including Mother Angelica of EWTN fame who supported the petition. I remember Mother Theresa because it shocked me so much that she, of all people, would do that.

    The Pope, fortunately, simply ignored it and it went away. Just goes to show that not all saints are prefect in their theology.

    St. Gregory of Nyssa after all was a believer in universal salvation.

  12. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    I think Michael may be talking about the movement to have yet another “infallible” proclamation that Mary is Co-Redemptrix.
    Here is what Mother Teresa said…” In the words of the late Mother Teresa of Calcutta, “Of course Mary is the Co-redemptrix – she gave Jesus his body, and his body is what saved us.” Not quite as polemical as saying she wanted her declared to be God. Although I never knew the woman personally my guess is that she didn’t believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary was God. It is usually only triumphal traditionalists who can’t get enough papal infallibility but in truth you will never see than gun drawn ever again.

  13. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    Mother Teresa may have been a little off on this but I’ve heard that some of her other work wasn’t half bad!

  14. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    leonard, you are correct, the official request was for co-redemptrix status, but the discussion by some around it was that it would make the Holy Trinity into a Holy Square.

    And, yes, her work was truly amazing and inspiring. Comparing Orthodox Saints to Catholic Saints to see whose are ‘better’ is a bit like proof-texting–unproductive and exhausting.

    I stipulate(again)there is holiness in the Roman Catholic Church. Holiness is holiness no matter where it is found.

    The only place where I have a chance for holiness, is the Orthodox Church. I could never be obedient to what the Roman Church asks. I struggle with the obedience asked by the Orthodox Church, but it is at least feasible.

  15. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    Michael, one other thing. I don’t find things in the RCC to be to my liking. Thomas Merton, a Cistercian once wrote in one of his books that he told his spiritual father that he felt he was being called to the Carthusians. His spiritual father replied “That’s the greatest example of self love that I have ever heard” I’ve always loved that story!

  16. easton Avatar
    easton

    the point that becomes clear from all of these comments is that no one can agree…how does that point us to THE truth?

  17. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    Michael, I’ll take your last statement as a complement 😛

  18. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Leonard,
    the fact that Christ can freely give His Grace wherever He chooses and save people floating ‘outside the Ark’ does not mean that there isn’t one. There’s only one Ark.
    The grave misunderstandings of the denominations outside of Orthodoxy – the filioque in RCC is not the only one at all – are amongst the testaments to them not being the “Ark”.
    The treasure of “Patristic theology” is evidently exclusively Orthodox, (and has not ceased…) and is more often than not misunderstood in the West. Those non-Orthodox who discover these treasures, and who suspect that their thirst for this depth is found there -in Orthodoxy- and not in the ‘stochastic’ and counterfeit ‘theologies’ of the West quench their thirst not without a certain yearning – even if they never manage to officially take the plunge for hundreds of reasons.

  19. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    The understanding of the Uncreated Glory/Kingdom (as understood in all the Fathers) was gradually abandoned in the West. This was in favour of an almost Jewish understanding (I am implying their expectation of a worldly King/Messiah) of a created Kingdom/Empire/Church/Glory, has certainly infiltrated the RCC even before the schism.

  20. Michael Patrick Avatar
    Michael Patrick

    I hope this excellent thread can steer clear of partisanship. I’m saying only because it appears to so near.

  21. Michael Patrick Avatar
    Michael Patrick

    fatherstephen said: “Follow the Council to the Cup.”

    Yes, in deed!

  22. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    Easton,
    The disagreement you see (and it’s not that there is no agreement), is pretty much the classical disagreements between Roman Catholics and the Orthodox (both being present in this discussion).

  23. drewster2000 Avatar
    drewster2000

    One of my old friends and mentors grew up in the Protestant church, spent the next 30 years with the Orthodox, and for the last 15 has been a Roman Catholic. He recently made a general statement in casual conversation that I have found to be quite accurate – as far as it goes:

    –The Orthodox have the right theology but are not in touch with the world around them.
    –The Roman Catholics are very much in touch with the world but thereby sometimes loose their grip on theology.
    –The Protestants have great preaching and knowledge of the Bible, but often loose their way because they don’t know or respect the roots of their past.

    I contend that by virtue of being fallen human beings, we all err in one way or another, despite our best intentions.

  24. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    Drewster,
    As an Orthodox writer who observes and comments a great deal on culture – I find am astounded to be told that the Orthodox are out of touch with the world around them. They are not conformed to the dominant Protestant/secular culture, I admit, but because of that, often see many things that the fish who swim in such waters in a native manner do not.

    Sure, everybody errs. No one is without sin.

  25. drewster2000 Avatar
    drewster2000

    Fr. Stephen,

    I don’t disagree in the slightest. There are things that the fish in the water don’t see or get, but the same could be said for those out of it. There are advantages and disadvantages to both perspectives, things to be gained and things to be lost.

    My contention is that they need each other.

    And by the way, you will surely not try to convince me that you are average and unremarkable in the Orthodox world.

  26. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    drewster,
    I take that ‘accusation’ of Orthodoxy as a possible compliment in the light of the classic words of the Epistle to Diognitus. True Christian’s, like Christ are ‘not of this world’. But as Father said, that also means they are the only ones who can clearly see the delusion of this world around them and come into ‘proper’ contact with it. Most others don’t see the forest for the trees.
    It is the Orthodox “life” that safeguards the right theology; and the right theology is always manifested in the right life, the right love, the right death. Outside of Orthodoxy I see even the core of our theology, (the Cross and the resurrection), misunderstood to a lesser or greater degree.
    To live and – to be far more precise – to die as a Christian this right theology is required. Only in Orthodoxy this is safeguarded and available not just to the erudite (as it is not stochastic) but even to the completely unlettered.
    It is always a temptation for us all to leave the crucificial, yet joyous life, for a ‘Christianity without the Cross’… Yes, nobody can live as a Christian, we can only die as Christians since Eternal Life was made manifest unto us through the Cross and through death (our Lord’s). Therefore it is through our freely embraced crucificial death for the sake of Christ’s commandments that one can truly live… This is how the renewal of man in the image of our Lord is completed. And this is safeguarded in the right theology of Orthodoxy…

  27. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    Drewster, only one thing is needful.

  28. drewster2000 Avatar
    drewster2000

    Dino,

    I didn’t mean it as an accusation.

  29. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Drewster,
    It didn’t come across as an accusation from you at all 🙂
    I just labelled your old friend’s statement of Orthodoxy (“out of touch”) an ‘accusation’ of his (since he left) in order to contraposition that a possible negative understanding of this is not the only way one should perceive it.

  30. AR Avatar

    Fr. Stephen, how would you describe that one thing that is needful?

  31. Lovie Bearer Avatar
    Lovie Bearer

    Our brother Leonard Nugent deplores the fact that is said to have said of the Theotokos: “Of course Mary is the Co-redemptrix – she gave Jesus his body, and his body is what saved us.”

    We Orthodox might lighten up a bit. This is actually quite close to what our beloved Fr. Stephen said in his post on “Saving Mary” last month–and it troubled my son, who thought it idolizes our Lady.

    And, yes, in limited contexts we also refer to Mary as co-redmptrix, and no that does not imply that anyone thinks she is divine or part of the Holy Trinity merely, like we, a collaborator with Christ in His work but she especially so since she was meek enough and humble enough to receive the Angelica Salutation and say “Be it done unto me according to thy word.” She epitomizes what we are all in our own station called to do.

    Christ is in our midst.

  32. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    AR,
    Classically, the answer is “prayer.” I would restate it to say, “Union with God,” since that’s what I think prayer is.

  33. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    Lovie,
    I agree that there was something of an Orthodox over-reaction to the co-redemptrix thing. Mother Teresa, I feel certain, generally viewed it in an Orthodox manner. She would in no way support Mary within the godhead.

    The proper Orthodox opposition to the language was that it potentially said too much – there is no need to say this. Of course Mary participates in our salvation (“Most Holy Theotokos save us!) but the redemption language made it sound too much like something else.

    The Pope was wise to ignore the petitions, and I pray that no future Pope accepts it. It will quickly become a stumbling block for the Orthodox.

  34. mary benton Avatar
    mary benton

    It would quickly be a stumbling block for many Catholics as well!

  35. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    There were those around at the time who were already taking it to ” Mary is part of the Godhead” level.

  36. Rd Andrew Avatar

    I just led a Reader’s Service of the Parakesis to the Theotokos. This is an incredible service in which you can experience the wonderful poetry of our liturgies, the reverence to and the proper theology of the most Holy Mother of God, the power of her femininity, and the joy of her saving grace.
    searching for salvation, I have sought refuge in thee;
    O Mother of the Word, and ever Virgin,
    from all distresses and dangers deliver me.
    Most Holy Theotokos save us!”
    (from the 1st of 9 odes in the Canon of the Theotokos, Service of the Paraklesis)

  37. Rd Andrew Avatar

    Sorry, a portion of the text got left out when I copied this to the comments box.

    I just led a Reader’s Service of the Parakesis to the Theotokos. This is an incredible service in which you can experience the wonderful poetry of our liturgies, the reverence to and the proper theology of the most Holy Mother of God, the power of her femininity, and the joy in her saving grace.
    “With my temptations surrounding me,
    searching for salvation, I have sought refuge in you;
    O Mother of the Word, and ever Virgin,
    from all distresses and dangers deliver me.
    Most Holy Theotokos save us!”
    (1st Ode in the Canon of the Theotokos, Service of the Paraklesis)

  38. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    I think Co-redemtrix declared as an infallible dogma is a horrible idea and the Popes who all know better than to do this will never do it. Like Father Stephen says It potentially says too much. It could easily be misunderstood and to my mind doing something like that borders on Mariolotry. What Mother Teresa said about the incarnation I embrace whole heartedly.

  39. leonard nugent Avatar
    leonard nugent

    “Most Holy Theotokos save us” get’s a few raised eyebrows from people who don’t understand it

  40. AR Avatar

    heh, yes it does

  41. PJ Avatar
    PJ

    What I don’t understand is why becoming Orthodox can’t exist in a western context. The west has a rich and beautiful liturgical and spiritual heritage, a heritage which in large part precedes the schism. The western liturgy was distinct from the eastern liturgy by the third century — at latest. And what about post-schism saints, which have inspired and enlightened westerners for hundreds of years? Take the stereotypical example: St. Thomas Aquinas, a brilliant and pious soul whose spiritual and intellectual life illumined Europe for a millennium. (And, I should add, a man who learned from Greek and Latin alike — next to St. Augustine, he was most fond of St. John Chrysostom, St. Dionysius, and St. John Damascene.) Is he simply to be ignored? What of his wonderful and glorious Corpus Christi office*? What of his stunning eucharistic hymns? Are these lush spiritual feasts, which satisfied countless generations, to be thrown into the rubbish bin? I, for one, cannot fathom abandoning the faith of my fathers. There can be no unity if it means such destruction. I desire communion between east and west more than anything, but it cannot come at the price of functionally anathematizing the entire post-schism church — east or west. As everyone acknowledges, only the Spirit can resolve our dilemma.

    * http://www.scribd.com/doc/16343027/Aquinas-Office-For-The-Solemnity-Of-Corpus-Christi

  42. PJ Avatar
    PJ

    That said, I can’t deny the charges lodged against the Roman Church by Father Stephen and others: We are in the midst of a profound identity crisis. Instead of growing closer to our eastern brethren, we are aping the worst aspects of Protestantism. The strength and orthodoxy of Blessed John Paul II and Benedict XVI have managed to hold the Church together, but I fear that any decentralization (as envisioned by Francis) will embolden the national bishops conferences, which are typically dominated by heterodox bureaucrats. I am most definitely *not* an ultramontanist, but I fear that apart from the direct exertion of strength by the Holy See, many of the “particular churches” will spiral out of control. This is especially the case because, in most places, the liturgy no longer enlightens and teaches. It is banal and humdrum. There is little or no transcendence. There is literally no worship of God. I fear that many eat the Eucharist sacramentally, but not spiritually. Many of the saints have said that in the last days, the Church of Rome will lose the faith entirely. Perhaps we are there. Alas, Babylon …

  43. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    PJ, in proper context such things could and, IMO, would be addressed in a pastoral manner. There are western-rite liturgies in use in the Orthodox Church, but I don’t know much about them.

    The veneration of the saints can be a sticky issue as it is with us and the non-Chalcedonians.

    Way above either of our pay-grades.

    The authority of the Pope is the thing. Once that issue is resolved, the rest will be a bit easier, possibly.

    I would suggest that the real faith of your fathers, however is not the RCC but the Apostolic faith.

    There, as it is now, a person has to decide which tradition has guarded that faith the best and best embodies it.

    For me, I’ve never had any doubt it is the Orthodox Church.

    I understand it might not be that for everyone.

  44. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    When one is coming into the Church the Cross is always involved. What that entails is different for each and every person.

    Some cannot give up the Roman understanding of the authority of the Pope and its centrality in the ecclesiology.

    I have a good friend who was a Roman Catholic priest for many years. He is now an Orthodox layman, a fairly recent change. He felt for a long time that the authority of the Pope was the better way of maintaining the Holy Tradition and faithfulness to the Apostolic faith.

    Slowly over time and with much pain and searching, he came to understand that the Orthodox understanding of Holy Tradition with the Divine Liturgy and the other mysteries being central to the life of the Church was more effective.

  45. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    Yes, but St Augustine (so much earlier before the schism) and St Thomas Aquinas have errors that need correcting. Errors that can lead astray if we are not aware of them being errors.
    Great as they were, they made ‘stochastic’ mistakes; such as saying that the appearances of God in the OT were not the pre-incarnated Uncreated Divine Logos but some created entity (against every single Father’s words and Christ’s [John 5:46, 8:58 etc]), or, connected to this, the notion of “created Energies”, or the notion of the Church being led into progressively deeper understanding (against all the Fathers who believed there is nothing ‘deeper’ than the experience of Pentecost), or, connected to this, the notion that theology is more accessible to erudite philosophers that haven’t had a direct experience of God than to unlettered beholders of God (the prophets, apostles and saints) and this list can go on.
    I am sounding like Romanides but there is an undeniable requirement for this stuff being acknowledged and mended too…

  46. PJ Avatar
    PJ

    Dino,

    I’m afraid you’re under some misconceptions.

    Firstly, there’s no way to know how St. Thomas, never mind St. Augustine, would have reacted to the Palamite controversy. Given St. Thomas’ deep interest and great respect for the Greeks, he no doubt would have been keenly interested in what he had to say.

    Secondly, as for Old Testament theophanies, both believed that “visible apparitions of the divine persons were … given to the Fathers of the Old Testament” (Summa Theologica, 1-43-7).

    Thirdly, does anyone deny that the Church can grow in its understanding of the sacred mysteries of our faith? Read the trinitarian speculations of Justin and Origen. Then read the trinitarian theology of the Cappadocians. If that isn’t “being led into progressively deeper understanding,” I don’t know what is! (What Pentecost has to do with this, I’m not sure.)

    Fourthly, it is simply strange to claim that St. Augustine and St. Thomas held that “theology is more accessible to erudite philosophers that haven’t had a direct experience of God than to unlettered beholders of God (the prophets, apostles and saints).” Where did you get such an idea?

    Although St. Thomas was, like all men, a product of his circumstances, he did his best to present a truly ecumenical theology, which combined the intellect and the heart of the east and the west. In some parts of the Summa, the Greek fathers outnumber the Latin fathers 2-to-1. It’s no wonder he was received with interest in the Byzantine world.

    But I don’t want to debate St. Thomas, or suchlike. I simply want to say that unity cannot mean pretending that nothing happened after 1054.

  47. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    PJ,
    give it a little more though for a second please…
    Augustin’s sincerity and greatness is undeniable, but this does not mean that he doesn’t erroneously plant the seeds that later became the Palamite controversy. The “γινόμενα” and “απογινόμενα” of Barlaam’s heresy did in fact first appear in a certain form in Augistin’s (Books II and III) of De Trinitate. There, in contradiction to all the Fathers and the Ecumenical councils, he put forward the notion that the Old Testament and the prophets (and even the apostles) did not see anything uncreated except by means of creatures which ‘God brings into existence to be seen and heard and which He then passes back out of existence’ once their mission is accomplished. He includes the revelation of the Logos as ‘Angel of the Lord’ Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush and Who is considered uncreated (even by the Jews and, of course) by the Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils. Even an unlettered Orthodox who looks at an icon of Christ saying «Ο ΩΝ» senses that it is the uncreated Second Person of the Trinity appearing to Moses as I AM («Ο ΩΝ»)…

    Unfortunately, Thomas Aquinas (whose equal sincerity is obvious – not denying that at all- when he says that: “Many things which sound well enough in Greek do not perhaps sound well in Latin. Hence, Latins and Greeks professing the same faith do so using different words.”) had been interpreting Augustine and other scholastic theologians… Scholastic means first and foremost ‘stochastic’ (philosophising rationally to a far greater degree than experiencing first hand) and hence, believes in a progressive rationally deepened knowledge ‘about’ God, rather than ‘of’ God face to face.

    Greek Patristic Theology never relied on the idea that better wording and especially better rationalization makes for deeper knowledge of God. The improvement in terminology of dogma comes about due to various heretical misunderstandings requiring these clarifications. However, this does NOT mean that the direct knowledge of God is deepened in any way (this is what I mean by Pentecost as a an example of the deepest knowledge of the Uncreated God by His saints, even if this is not formulated that clearly in created words at the time and many more centuries pass for the terminology to be honed). So in this sense there is no “being led into progressively deeper understanding”. This is what scholasticism might erroneously think, however, this (essentially gnostic) notion of rational betterment of one’s knowledge is at odds with the true, first-hand, experiential knowledge of God that the saints (the true verifiers of the Ecumenical councils’ terms)…

  48. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    knowledge of God that the saints had (the true verifiers of the Ecumenical councils’ terms)…

  49. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    PJ,
    A brief couple of points. You are right – things after the Schism have to be taken into account.

    Notes on Orthodox thoughts: Much of contemporary Orthodox thought grows out of the relatively recent process of “recovering” Orthodox theology. It is a recovery from the domination by non-Orthodox materials in formal Orthodox theology for a season. Thus Lutheran and Catholic thought had far too much sway in the seminaries in Russia for better than a century (this began to change some just before the Revolution). Catholic thought had a fairly dominant position within Orthodox schools in Greece, as recently as the 1950’s. Thus, there is a certain “reactionary” quality to a lot of contemporary Orthodox thought. It is natural and proper and part of a process that must finish its course. It has been a tremendous benefit, interestingly, to the non-Orthodox in that it has helped others “hear” a voice that was in danger of being smothered.

    This process often adds a strident tone to Orthodox thought, that is understandable, but easily over-played. I overplay it far too often here on the blog, but tend to do so in an effort to press for clarity about Orthodox thought.

    Having said that: There are two ways to view Aquinas, Augustine, and the Catholic and Western post-Schism world. The first is to critique (which I just described), the second is to engage. Aquinas under an Eastern critique looks like one thing, Aquinas engaged by an Eastern “mind” is something else. The latter is a reading in which commonalities are sought and explored.

    This happens (there was a major conference a year or so ago in which the place of Augustine in Orthodoxy was the topic). It will continue to happen. But as it happens, what will emerge is not Aquinas (for example) as he stands removed from Orthodoxy, but as he would be when engaged. And, I would think, the two would look quite different.

    I did some Thomist study under Hauerwas at Duke – particularly in theological ethics. It is not off my radar screen.

    We both agree about the present liturgical state of Catholicism and its incipient weakening of the Church. Thomas has almost no place in contemporary American Catholicism as far as I can see. The Western liturgical tradition has now been moth-balled as an antique, the present Rite resembling it only in outline form, and that just barely. The fullness of liturgical life – as continues in Orthodoxy as normative (the hours, the horologion, menaion, etc.), are only maintained in a few contemplative monasteries and have become foreign both to parishioners and priests.

    The West has lost touch with “the West.” There is no so much a split today between East and West, as there is between Modernity and everything else. It is the embrace of modernity within Catholicism and Protestantism that concern me far more than any of the classical debates. Those debates are indeed able to be resolved. But modernity is a Trojan Horse, anti-human, poisonous and soul-destroying.

  50. PJ Avatar
    PJ

    Father,

    I wouldn’t go quite so far as you in describing the Catholic liturgical life, even in America. It is not entirely decrepit, not yet. There are many parishes where the liturgical life is vibrant and traditional. And these parishes tend to attract young folks. Like me and my wife — and our baby! Yes, that’s right, my wife is pregnant! Little Augustine is on the way…

    That said, there is widespread chaos and destruction. I would like to see the Orthodox *creatively and charitably engage* the west, embracing and revitalizing what is good and true and beautiful in Latin Christianity. Instead, I often see a tendency to reject Latin Christianity as a sort of counterfeit. It isn’t counterfeit, it is simply different. There is an acceptable amount of diversity in unity.

    Ultimately, I agree with you: it’s modernity vs. everything else. And that’s where the Orthodox witness comes in.

  51. PJ Avatar
    PJ

    I was hoping that Pope Benedict, with his patristic orientation and incisive critique of modernity, would inaugurate a new age in the Church, but now I’m not so sure…

  52. mary benton Avatar
    mary benton

    Fr. Stephen,

    I am confused about your comments on Catholic liturgical life. Though I don’t doubt there are exceptions, we have a rich and beautiful liturgy. Also, the hours are not lost outside the monastery – our priests pray them as do some of the laity (though we lay folk may only do part of it because of the time demands of a life in the world).

    I do not doubt that the Orthodox could further enrich our liturgical life and spirituality in general. That is part of the reason I would like to see us draw closer rather than farther apart.

  53. PJ Avatar
    PJ

    Dino,

    You might appreciate a book entitled “St Thomas Aquinas: Spiritual Master,” especially Volume 2. Fr. Jean-Pierre Torrell writes of St. Thomas, “[His] dilemma consisted in fully receiving the orientation of the Latin tradition … allowing a certain knowledge of the divine essence, without falling into the naive illusion of exhaustive knowledge. At the same time, Thomas has to accept the Greek legacy, a deep religious respect and transcendence, without renouncing the hope, nourished by Scripture, of a truly face-to-face vision. On the one hand lay the risk of a blasphemous pretension to subordinate the secret of God to the grasp of man. On the other hand, the risk was to succumb to agnosticism before an impersonal and unattainable transcendence and to deprive the Christian of the stimulus of the final encounter, where hope will find the fulfillment of its infinite desire.”

    St. Thomas has been greatly misunderstood, east and west. Case in point: Fr. Torrell notes that St. Thomas’ famous “Five Proofs” are actually a “confession of humility,” for he assumes that God is so radically Other that “in itself God’s existence is evident, but not for us.” And furthermore, all of the proofs are rooted in the Divine Name revealed to Moses. Reason is used to assist, rather than establish, faith. Fr. Torrell also does a masterful job of demonstrating St. Thomas’ appropriation of the eastern via negativa, especially from St. Dionysius and St. John Damascene.

    Again, I don’t mean to get wrapped up in St. Thomas, but it’s a good example of where the Catholic and Orthodox traditions might have much more in common than is sometimes assumed.

  54. David Avatar
    David

    Fr. Stephen, I hope you will permit me to share some things encountered in my recent reading, and be so kind as to comment upon them.

    When Meletios as Patriarch of Alexandria wrote to Cosmo, Archbishop of Canterbury on the Feast of Christ’s Nativity, 1930, informing him that “the Church of Alexandria withdraws its precautionary negative to the acceptance of the validity of Anglican Ordinations, and, adhering to the decision of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, of July 28, 1922, pronounces that if priests, ordained by Anglican Bishops, accede to Orthodoxy, they should not be re-ordained, as persons baptized by Anglicans are not rebaptized”, he had, as Ecumenical Patriarch, already heard, seven years and nine months earlier, from Cyril, Archbishop of Cyprus writing on 20 March 1923 in the name of his Synod that the autocephalous Church of Cyprus under his presidency judged that “there is no obstacle to the recognition by the Orthodox Church of the validity of Anglican Ordinations” and that Anglican clerics coming “into the bosom of the Orthodox Church” should be “received without reordination”, adding “excluding intercommunio (sacramental union), by which one might receive the sacraments indiscriminately at the hands of an Anglican, even one holding the Orthodox dogma, until the dogmatic unity of the two Churches, Orthodox and Anglican, is attained.”

    Here, we see three autocephalous Orthodox Churches (to which, indeed, the Patriarchate of Jerusalem had already been added as of 12 March 1923, and the Rumanian Orthodox Church was later added, in 1936), adding to their recognition of the validity of Anglican baptism as the One Baptism into the One Church their recognition of Anglican Orders and Ordination “because [in the words of Damianos Patriarch of Jerusalem] there exist all the elements which are considered necessary from an Orthodox point of view for the recognition of the grace of the Holy Orders from Apostolic Succession.” Patriarch Cyril, however, specifies that this excludes “intercommunio […] until the dogmatic unity of the two Churches, Orthodox and Anglican, is attained.” Because they are not one in “dogmatic unity” the Cup is not shared.

    I understand, however, that in many cases a sort of ‘economics of the Cup’ followed these recognitions, with Orthodox hierarchs granting Orthodox faithful permission to receive the Body and Blood in Anglican Celebrations.

    Do you know if this Orthodox Ecclesiastical recognition of Anglican Orders and hierarchical acceptance of Anglican Eucharistic hospitality lasted until the American Episcopal and Canadian Anglican decisions in favor of the ‘ordination of women’ in 1976?

  55. fatherstephen Avatar
    fatherstephen

    David,
    The recognition of Anglican orders seems to have been short-lived, and not universally accepted. I do not know the dates of when it any recognition ceased. I do know that it was not in place in the 70’s when ECUSA and Canada began ordaining women. It was recognized long before then that the conversations that led to such recognitions were largely misleading – that the latitude of accepted doctrinal discipline was well beyond what had been represented by those speaking on behalf of Anglicanism. Not only that, but the very understanding of holy orders was far less universal within Anglicanism itself.

    The Eucharistic hospitality began to disappear in the 60’s and 70’s. In a sense, the more clearly Anglicanism revealed itself to be a liturgical but Protestant Church, generally liberal in every respect, it was seen as simply as a spiritually dangerous place for any Orthodox believer. It also has to be said that the Orthodox attitude towards ecumenical conversation, which was probably at a high point in the first half of the 20th century, has shifted quite decidedly probably from the 60’s forward. The word “ecumenism” is now an insult hurled at other Orthodox – more or less equivalent to phrases like, “New World Order” and “Globalism.”

  56. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    PJ,
    a key problem with Aquinas, exactly as with Augustin and Barlaam is the weak or non-existent differentiation between God’s Uncreated (and uncommunicated for the Fathers) nature/substance (‘Ουσία’) and His Uncreated (but communicated) Energies… This is key. It is partly the reason that led to ‘Filioque’ and to the ‘created energies’ and to many other issues…
    Therefore all three of them see ‘made’ (“γινόμενα”) and ‘unmade’ (“απογινόμενα”) entities in the Holy Spirit’s appearance as ‘like a dove’ or as ‘like tongues of fire’ or in the appearances of Christ in the OT…
    The Fathers on the other hand (Augustin’s teacher -St Ambrose- is extremely clear and polemical on the OT appearances of the Uncreated Logos for instance) state unequivocally that all these appearances are communications of God’s Uncreated Glory/Energies to man.

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