Comments

108 responses to “The Good Confession”

1. 

   Karen

   December 1, 2009

   David, I don’t doubt that you have some sort of Christian experience. I was talking about the Orthodox experience in particular, and more particularly personal contact with her Saints. On the other hand, there were those who encountered Jesus of Nazareth and perceived nothing more than a carpenter’s son. Even His disciples were very slow to comprehend despite all the miracles–all the more remarkable that they ended up martyrs proclaiming something as improbable as His Resurrection. Similarly, I’m not ignorant of the spiritual experiences of people outside Christian faith and also even of those of no particular faith. I don’t judge those–some of them seem to me to be in their own way limited experiences of God. Others may be pure delusion or some other common manifestation of human need or expression (or even sometimes evil forces beyond our understanding). None of them have the same fullness of meaning for me as those that take place in the context of the gospel. It is ultimately meaning, not experiences in and of themselves, that compels faith for me. It is more about being able to put my experiences in the context of a meaningful story–a story that must account for the fully personal nature of human existence. Reason alone and “evidence” (which is always colored by the filter through which one views the world) are not enough for me. The ethical theory which you named as your guiding ethical principle seems very inadequate to me. I don’t really see how a theory (where one admits that no one can really rise to the perspective of the theorized “ideal observer,” anyway), can take the place of personal example and personal guidance when it comes to learning to discern the Good in a given context. It certainly doesn’t for me–I’m a very concrete thinker. Either I am much more needy than you, or I’m more aware of my needs, but I couldn’t function from the framework you are working with.

2. 

   yannis

   December 1, 2009

   “yada” is actually funny as used in English, in Japanese it translates as “no”/”no way”.

3. 

   James the Brother

   December 1, 2009

   Handmaiden; yes it’s time to call in Susan Powter on this one.

4. 

   fatherstephen

   December 2, 2009

   David,
   I do think it’s time to give this conversation a rest. The points concerning reason, etc. are understood, and an Orthodox response that reason is insufficient for human knowing has been stated. I don’t want the blog to become dominated by a conversation that says the same things repeatedly. It’s where a blog differs from a forum.

   A last suggestion, for what it’s worth. I was wondering this evening whether you (or other readers) were familiar with the work of Richard Rorty (the anti-foundationalist), or other philosophical critics of reason (I would add to his name: David Hume, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Michel Foucault and others). Serious philosophers raise questions about reason as a means for determining truth or determining many things. It appears that reason’s children (or greatgrandchildren) eventually begin to ask questions of reason and despair of its philosophical sufficiency.

   I would suggest that the discussion of reason’s sufficiency needs to be settled with other non-believing philosophers before coming to religious believers with the silver bullet of reason’s superiority. You’re nearly three hundred years late in the conversation.

5. 

   fatherstephen

   December 2, 2009

   leah,
   It is indeed time. I’m just so patient 🙂

6. 

   James the Brother

   December 2, 2009

   Bless you father for your merciful kindness.

7. 

   David Ellis

   December 2, 2009

   
   I do think it’s time to give this conversation a rest.
   

   Its your blog. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to discuss your beliefs and why you hold them.

   
   I would suggest that the discussion of reason’s sufficiency needs to be settled with other non-believing philosophers before coming to religious believers with the silver bullet of reason’s superiority. You’re nearly three hundred years late in the conversation.
   

   And I would suggest that dialogue and examination of our own and each other’s beliefs is something all of us, believers and nonbelievers alike, can benefit from—now and always. Whether matters are “settled” or not.

8. 

   dale

   December 2, 2009

   You are presently being driven through the streets of truth but continue to disbelieve their words and deny a world exists outside of the car. I guess colour must not exist afterall. I jest but you must see the inconsistency. I have been there though and I empathize. You will find your reality getting very small indeed on this path. You do have my prayers. Humility is the path to true understanding.