Building God’s Temple

I stumbled into a conversation recently in which I heard, “Well, they say that the people are the Church, while the building is just a building.” I hesitated and mumbled something that indicated some level of disagreement. I could have said (should have said), “The building is a sacrament – it matters.”

In a neighboring town, a non-descript brick building beside an interstate highway (also non-descript) bore large letters facing the road that proclaimed, “Church of Christ meet here.” It is an anti-building sign on an anti-building building – without beauty, without significance. The grammar of the sign said it all. In a normal American-English construction, Church requires a singular verb: Church of Christ Meets Here. But the sentence is changed in order to say that “Church” is a plural noun (just a collection of individuals). So, the Church Meet Here. I have little to say about the denomination, the Church of Christ, other than to note that it’s founder was apparently as fond of John Locke as he was of the Bible.

Poor Notre Dame in Paris managed to re-open last week. Few buildings have suffered as much over their history. I’ll not retrace the many insults it has endured. Jonathan Glancey wrote in a recent article: https://unherd.com/2024/12/notre-dame-wont-save-macrons-soul/

The mob [at the time of the French Revolution] in their Jacobin caps stormed Notre-Dame. Early 13th-century statues of 28 Kings of Judea adorning the west facade were wrenched down and decapitated. The baying anti-clerics mistook them for kings of France. The interior of the cathedral was looted and then used, among other secular purposes, as a wine depot. In November 1793, a pointedly paganistic Festival of Reason was held in the nave.

Under Napoleon, the building was being refitted in the style of a Corinthian temple with the name “Temple to the Glory of the Grand Army.” Perhaps it should have read: “Glory of the Grand Army Meet Here.” It was eventually spared and slowly restored to its earlier shape. The fate(s) of Notre Dame is perhaps a “sacrament” of Western Christianity itself.

I love Church buildings. My childhood experience of Church was non-descript – the religion it housed was non-descript. It was an anti-building building. It was as a teen-ager that I first saw a beautiful Church building. It was a 19th century American Gothic construction, a product of the romanticism of that time, a longing for a lost, medieval past. It awoke within me a longing I had never known before – that’s the power of a sacrament.

Orthodoxy’s “theology” of Church buildings is largely driven by a sense that the building (and the Liturgies within it) is a reflection of heaven. God gave Moses very specific instructions for the construction of the Tabernacle in the wilderness, saying, “See that you build it according to the [heavenly] pattern that was shown to you.” That pattern eventually shaped the Temple(s) in Jerusalem, which, in turn, shaped the Church buildings built by Christians. That there was a heavenly pattern is significant. It says that our instinct regarding architecture has a spiritual component. In buildings, we are looking to make visible something that is invisible. Much the same can be said of the whole Christian life.

Our culture has largely lost the language of sacrament. With that loss comes an inability to describe the fullness of our experience. To say a Church is “majestic” or “awe-inspiring” states the obvious – that can be nothing more than a function of big or vertical. We have lost its narrative and the vocabulary that belongs to it.

I visited Stonehenge some years ago. Oddly, I happened to be there a day or so after the Summer Solstice. There were predictable crowds of oddly-dressed, self-identifying “pagans.” We stood around the megaliths, all equally clueless. Whatever the builders of this amazing structure thought they were doing, none of us knew. There were, doubtless, a host of opinions, but no knowledge. Today, the structure is a sacrament only of a lost world and our own imaginations.

In that same journey, I also visited the ruins of a former abbey (England has many of these, evidence of a once violent Protestantism and a greedy king). I knew the narrative of the ruins. I knew where to stand and where not to tread. A said a silent prayer for the monastics who were martyred there.

In truth, our buildings (Churches and homes, as well) can only do so much. The sacraments bring us grace, but we bring something of ourselves. We do not live without buildings, but it is best when the inner and the outer reflect one another.

St. Gregory of Nyssa offered thoughts to a friend who wanted direction on the notion of making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Such pilgrimages were only in their infancy in the 4th century. His thoughts are significant:

Before we saw Bethlehem we knew [that Christ was] made man by means of the Virgin; before we saw His Grave we believed in His Resurrection from the dead; apart from seeing the Mount of Olives, we confessed that His Ascension into heaven was real. We derived only thus much of profit from our travelling there, namely that we came to know by being able to compare them, that our own places are far holier than those abroad. Wherefore, O you who fear the Lord, praise Him in the places where you now are. Change of place does not affect any drawing nearer unto God, but wherever you may be, God will come to you, if the chambers of your soul be found of such a sort that He can dwell in you and walk in you. But if you keep your inner man full of wicked thoughts, even if you were on Golgotha, even if you were on the Mount of Olives, even if you stood on the memorial-rock of the Resurrection, you would be as far away from receiving Christ into yourself, as one who has not even begun to confess Him.

Our buildings are significant, even sacramental. Nevertheless, the “building” within the heart is paramount. As sacraments, the structures that surround us can nurture and assist the inward construction or discovery of the mystical temple that is our ultimate resting place – whose builder and maker is God. (Heb. 11:10)

 

 

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a retired Archpriest of the Orthodox Church in America. He is also author of Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, and Face to Face: Knowing God Beyond Our Shame, as well as the Glory to God podcast series on Ancient Faith Radio.



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52 responses to “Building God’s Temple”

  1. Mark Spurlock Avatar
    Mark Spurlock

    Personally timely. Thank you for such a well-written piece, Father Stephen.

  2. Bryan (Emmanuel) Elderkin Avatar
    Bryan (Emmanuel) Elderkin

    It is a debate that goes back (and probably before) Jesus’s time on earth in the flesh, when his own disciples were dismayed by the act of sacrifice and adoration and devotion by the breaking of a flask of costly ointment and the anointing of Jesus’s feet. (when they said ‘should this not have been rather sold and the money given to the poor…)
    In that act was much more than we can apprehend, and the Lord said as much. It is the Orthodox view that I too came to appreciate as a converted Protestant who longed for that ‘awe’ and mystery that could not be fully fathomed. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you, and in your midst… thank you for your thoughts Fr Freeman.

  3. Justin Avatar
    Justin

    Fr Stephen, you said: “Church of Christ meet here.” It is an anti-building sign on an anti-building building – without beauty, without significance.

    I love it… “anti-building-building”… that so nails the [ahem] tradition I was raised in.

    “…without significance…” except when it does have significance. Prior to my leaving, my home congregation embarked on a building expansion project for the “fellowship hall,” which ended up being more beautiful and significant than the original worship space… so much so that they, at times, began to conduct services in the fellowship hall rather than the meeting hall. [facepalm] What does that tell you about what their “sacrament” was? (Good or bad, I make no judgement.)

    My current parish is making plans to expand the parish hall, piggy-backed onto the expansion and beautification of the nave which is ongoing. My wife and I are in a bit of [cordial] disagreement about it. Having seen the project at our old cofC congregation, she is convinced that any investment in a building would be better spent given to the poor. I am, for many of the reasons given here, of two minds about it. I love our worship space, it does what it was set out to do, remind us of Heaven, and bring peace to our hearts. It is very expensive. My wife’s question is always, “How many people could have been fed with that kind of money?” I don’t dare bring up Judas’ comments about the alabaster vial of perfume…

    I have resolved to give alms of my own resources, and hold myself accountable for helping the poor, and let the church be (and still support it). There will always be a tension, I think.

  4. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    This is so timely. 45 million Euros was spent on the renovation of the Catholic cathedral in my city. There is so much debate surrounding all this! Did they spend too much? What about the parishes that are facing property liquidation? What about the parishes (like mine) who struggle to even be able to turn the heat on in the winter? Could that money not have been better spent?

    Personally, I am not sure what to think … but then there is sacrament to consider …

  5. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Justin, Matthew, et al
    I have been in ordained ministry for 45 years. In that time I’ve had parishes grow. I’ve raised money for buildings, but, for various reasons, I’ve never built a building. God did not give that blessing to me (I’m David, not Solomon). I’ve also raised money for the poor, built Habitat houses, etc.

    On one level, I think there is a “scarcity mentality” that often afflicts Christians. I does not seem to afflict them when it comes to building their own homes or buying cars, etc. But, we tremble at spending money of a building, and wonder if it could not be better spent for the poor (but then we don’t do much for them, either).

    I will say that parishes who do both, places where a spirit of generosity (for all things) is nurtured, are too rare. One parish that I served in felt “stuck” by the difficulty of “leaping” to a new building. A parish leader came to me and suggested that we have a much lesser fund raiser and beautify what we had. We did an interior remodel that was very successful (certainly, it did my heart good). I’ve always felt indebted to him – it was a very good suggestion.

    There are, of course, choices to be made. Indeed, Churches across the world are funded in different ways, and the state of the Church in different places varies greatly. Many European Christians have the very expensive legacy of the upkeep on buildings that are hundreds of years old (not common in the U.S.).

    It is good that we rightly give attention to the temple of the heart – knowing that the sacrament of the building is important as well.

    Justin, I have to say that the Judas problem has often come to mind in these discussions. “I will not betray Thee with a kiss, as did Judas…” we pray each week in Orthodoxy. Judas’ words about the poor are perhaps the bitterest kiss of all.

  6. A Reader Avatar
    A Reader

    The Christian life is “looking to make visible something that is invisible.”

    The whole world is sacrament; that is, the whole world is holy, or at least, meant to be holy. The Christian looks to make the holiness of the world visible. This is part of God’s plan of salvation.

    And regarding St. Gregory of Nyssa’s thoughts on pilgrimage to the “Holy Land,” – We are looking for the visibility of that holiness (of the world) in (only) the land where Christ Himself walked, but we do not find the holiness there – we find it in our own hearts, where Christ now dwells.

    And so, in seeking Christ in our own hearts here and now, in the place and circumstances we find ourselves, somehow we make visible the holiness of creation, the goodness of God (for which we are hated, how ironic). And a natural outflowing of that would be beautiful spaces dedicated to liturgical worship, as well as the works of almsgiving, fasting, and prayer, all necessary parts of liturgical worship.

    Father Stephen, did I restate that in a right manner?

    For what it is worth, my thoughts on the dilemma of building churches or giving to the poor – try reading Exodus 25-31, God instructing Moses on the building of the temple, all the wealth they brought with them from Egypt being offered as first fruits, wealth given them by God, which they then returned to His Glory. God Himself gave them instruction on what to do with the gifts He had given them, and this was/is for the salvation of the whole world. Somewhere in the chapters before that, the scripture tells us that the Egyptians gave them wealth, or they paid the Israelites to leave…before Pharaoh changed his mind and chased them down again. The real dilemma is probably not in the building versus the giving to the “poor,” but in the actual (hidden) motivation(s) and judgments of our own hearts in those actions. There are many other examples in the scriptures that would shed light on that.

  7. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Reader,
    Seems like a spot-on summary to me!

  8. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    Amen to these beautiful words and the holy temple of the heart who seeks Christ!

  9. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Fr. Stephen and A Reader.

    Fr. Stephen, you make excellent points about the age and condition of churches in Europe. Our parish, for example, was built I think more than 100 years ago (young by European standards) in a typical European church style. It is large and very high built mainly with bricks. It is very expensive to care for as well as to heat.

    A Reader said:

    “The real dilemma is probably not in the building versus the giving to the “poor,” but in the actual (hidden) motivation(s) and judgments of our own hearts in those actions. There are many other examples in the scriptures that would shed light on that.”

    I think this is spot on. I hope that when I criticize the diocese for spending so much money on the renovation of the cathedral downtown that I have no judgments or hidden agendas/motivations. I would have really liked the money to be used for something else, but it wasn´t. The archbishop wrote a letter that was read in (I think) the churches in our diocese about the cathedral renovation. In the letter he attempted to explain how and why the interior style was chosen (very modern) and that the cathedral would draw people from all walks of life to a strong Catholic presence in the city.

    I am still very torn about what to think regarding the interior design as well as the money spent. Either way, though, I hope my judgments and any hidden agendas are kept in check.

  10. Ook Avatar
    Ook

    Somewhere in the depths of Elaine Pagels, I read that when the ancient Hebrews called the temple the house of God, we are to understand that this is not a symbol or metaphor, but the reality. And she noted that the moderns find this impossible to accept.
    But from this I conclude that if we see the church building as anything other than sacramental, we are in the heart of the two-storey universe: wherein the building is an art project, and let’s spend the money on something useful.

  11. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Ook. Seeing the church building as sacramental is key, I think, to this whole “How to spend the money?” question.

  12. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    It has always bemused me, the human tendency to control and limit the unseen by “defining” what it is and what it is not. It tends to weaken the intra-connectedness of our Creator and Savior and our hearts. Especially the extent and nature of God as Person– especially Jesus.
    We also make a similar mistake in the opposite direction.

  13. Ayyeliki Avatar
    Ayyeliki

    So much food for thought here ! My home parish has outgrown its “church size”- so many new converts, which is amazing! I, too, have struggled with the “keep it modest” finance-based thinking.
    Perhaps, the answer is we prayerfully build a glorious Church, while maintaining good intentions all the while AND continue to feed the poor-as a community and individuals. I don’t see how that could be a sin.
    Doesn’t the Lord look at our intentions?
    ( I’m always praying for forgiveness if I mess “this” up, which I’m good at, apparently , sigh.)

  14. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Hello Michael. What is and what is not … interesting.

    Moderns want us to believe that there is no unseen world. Nothing beyond what we can study and rationalize. Nothing remotely ontological. Everything a project of pure human will and knowledge and strength.

    What has this gotten us as a human race? Some advances in medicine, science and technology … but what more? I would love to know what more?

  15. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    In buildings, we are looking to make visible something that is invisible. Much the same can be said of the whole Christian life.

    Thank you Father. I have been continually pondering the discussion of “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” that we had some time ago. I think that Lamb slain was made visible in the Passover, and then in the Eucharist and of course on the Cross. I suppose it remains to be seen how that will continually bear fruit.

    The question for me is what you are alluding to here in the quoted passage. How am I supposed to do that? How do I contribute to that? We’re trying to build a cathedral at my parish and it’s been practically impossible. I’m quite active in trying to gear up the effort yet again

  16. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    In many ways, the answer to the question, “How do I contribute to that?” is to love God and to love our neighbor. Some of these things take time…well, all of these things.

  17. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    Because there is an unseen world it is also true that it makes itself manifest – at least to a degree. So, there is the work of allowing that to happen.

  18. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    I believe the ‘work’ in your last comment to Matthew might be simply the work of the will to see.

    In my case such work would be allowing the heart to see. Before I received my first communion as a Christian in the Orthodox Church, I feared my habit of over analysing would rob me of true communion within Christ and Christ within me. I said a short prayer before touching the cup. “Lord do not let my mind stop me from receiving you. Please let me sense and perceive you as you will.”

    Gratefully I was not hindered. Glory to Go for His mercy.

  19. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Vladimir Lossky used (or coined) the phrase “participatory adherence” as his definition of faith. It is a kind of “reaching out” that sounds very much like what you’re describing.

  20. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thanks for your answer, Father.

    I keep saying that the effort to build the building really has to be a spiritual one at the foundation. Everybody’s thinking we need rich people to give the money, but I think the Spirit has to be there in our community and can start with two mites. Your suggestion is how that happens and I will keep working on it!

  21. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Matthew, it is the difference between a “man created false god”, ala Nietzche and a human being Created in the Image and likeness.

    I first met Jesus about the time I was assigned the task of studying Nietzche and explaining his historical perspective. A project I aced back in 1970.

    Still “researching” Him and the personal/historical/spiritual reality of the Incarnation.

    The Joy, challenge and interaction with Jesus surpasses anything else I have experienced, but the freedom He gives us is extraordinary.

    Glory to God!

  22. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Michael.

  23. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Fr. Stephen said:

    “Because there is an unseen world it is also true that it makes itself manifest – at least to a degree. So, there is the work of allowing that to happen.”

    What kind of work? Sacramental? Personal witness? Inner work of the Spirit?

  24. Karen Watson Avatar
    Karen Watson

    My usual response to that old false binary, which too often is an excuse for doing neither, is “Do both”.
    Our ancient English churches and their sheer survival (some contain actual Roman materials reused by Saxon builders) awe and delight random visitors whose nearest similar experience is a castle of similar age. People demand their upkeep and maintenance who never set foot inside for an act of worship. France considers them national heritage and the State owns them and rents them back to the Catholic Church. They are hubs for villages that no longer have a pub, post office or school and an icon of “English village” that everyone recognises from chocolate boxes, jigsaws and biscuit tins. The national Church is widely despised, from the King downwards, but the folk memory of faith refuses to die.
    May their silent witness survive the foolishness of humankind for many more generations, and continue to tempt the curious stranger inside.

  25. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Karen Watson said:

    “May their silent witness survive the foolishness of humankind for many more generations, and continue to tempt the curious stranger inside.”

    Thanks so much for this Karen. I saw something in the news some time ago about churches in England being turned into skateboard parks and modern concert halls. I realize that Christendom has breathed its last breath in Western Europe, but it still hurts me to see this happening.

  26. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    The construction of a building can be a difficult thing. Prayer, patience, and generosity are required, to say the least. It is also notorious as a time/project that increases strife among the faithful. Thus, more prayer and patience are required on top of it all!

  27. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    We are currently expanding our Chapel. It will get wider to accommodate the increasing size of our congregation. A new building was out of the question so expanding the Chapel, for the second time (the first was when I first began to attend, in 2015), is the plan. We are united on this expansion, though.

    Last year, we built a new parish hall to replace the double-wide we were using. The latter was overflowing with people and the new hall was a necessity. On the day we first used it, it was full to the brim!

    It is a huge blessing for the parish to grow so much, even so quickly, by God’s grace! We accommodate the growth as best we can. The cost of the Chapel expansion includes new Icons and other things to beautify it. God willing, I look forward to worshipping there when it is done!

  28. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Byron,
    The recent influx of new people to our Orthodox Churches has certainly created an immediate need for expansion that no one saw coming. St. Anne, where I served for 25 years, saw rapid growth after my retirement (2020). It was topping 200 on Sundays this past Spring. Several years back, pretty much all of the interior walls were demolished to sort of double the space – it was outgrown. There are plans for a new temple and fund-raising is ongoing. St. John of the Ladder in Greenville, SC, where I will be attached in the coming year, is running over 300 on Sundays ( beyond its design). I think they’re going to be spinning off a mission or two. This is happening in many places – some in Great Britain and Europe as well.

    The history of the Church has such interesting moments!

  29. Andrew Avatar
    Andrew

    That quote from St. Gregory reminds me of something I heard many years ago about the a scribal note from a 9th century Irish monk discovered in an old manuscript that said:

    “To go to Rome
    is little profit, endless pain;
    the master that you seek in Rome
    you find at home or seek in vain.”

  30. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Man … the religious landscape in America (be it Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant) is so different than my corner of the world!

    300 on Sundays?? You might only see that in some German Pentecostal churches!

    Also … thanks so much for the prayers Owen and everyone else. Things have settled down, thankfully, with my mother.

  31. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Matthew,
    My wife and I attend the regional Antiochian Cathedral. Bishop retired so we do not get Hierarchical Divine Liturgies as we used to but we have a quite a capacity. Fr. Stephen has served here so he can verify.

    Sunday was full; 2 priests and a Deacon to celebrate, a 35 person choir and 6-8 chanters (some in training).

    Congregation primarily Lebanese names. Not many Germanic.

    The other Antiochian parish across town is smaller but just as full.

    Both are small compared to Protestant and RCC parishes in our town.

    My area of the US is known as The Bible Belt or part of it.

  32. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    It’s a mighty big belt! H.L. Mencken is the first to have coined the term “Bible Belt.” At the time he was writing, he was referring to Dayton, TN, which is near Chattanooga (it was the site of the famous “Monkey Trials”). So, Chattanooga probably has a good claim to be the “buckle of the Bible Belt”) though I’ve seen some other locales claim that title. It is generally, accurate to describe the highly Christian South (which, of course, is less so than it was in 1920).

  33. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    All true, Father but in the mile of road that St. George parking lot fronts on, there are three other churches. Two with dual Sunday services: The RC and the Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Then the Methodist Church just east of us. A large building.

    Not to mention the several other churches close around. Lots to choose from. We used to have a radio station that broadcast a reading of The Rosary that went on for awhile.

    About 2/3 of the US can be considered “on the Bible Belt” to some degree.

    But you have also seen the size of St. George and how well populated we tend to be. If anyone lives close, make an appointment with the office and I would love to give you a tour. She is not only large, but beautiful and theologically/historically instructive in ways that only an Orthodox parish can be.

  34. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    I want to testify as it is about the time of night when Jesus, if I am awake, when He tends to get my attention to pray with Him in thanksgiving for Joy and Mercy. May He and the Blessed Theotokos be with you and everyone here in Joy

  35. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Michael and Fr. Stephen.

    It must be challenging being Orthodox in the Bible Belt, though maybe not?

  36. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Matthew, being Orthodox when the forbears came was an asset. St Raphael of Brooklyn took care of his people. He made the cross country train line the Orthodox Bible Belt with the stop in Kearney, NE as the buckle. The first icon of him was written for our sanctuary. He is on the eastern side while St Ignatius of Antioch is on the west.
    St. Raphael assigned us our first priest about 100 years. By honoring him and venerating him I become part of the family of the Farha’s; Cohlmia’s;
    Elkouria’s; etc. still here.
    That is one reason I love giving tours. Hooks me in.

    Of course, we have the Sacraments to hold us together — done in Arabic, now English mostly although Arabic is still used. Our head chanter speaks Arabic as his first language although none of our priests or Deacons.

    Although our first parishes had to be built in the west side of the Ark River because that was where all the outlaws, servants and slaves lived.

    We still have our big, annual Lebanese Dinner to turn the tables. That is where I give the majority of my tours as well.

    We welcome everyone to our dinner table and our Sanctuary..

  37. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    In researching Kearney, I found it is exactly half way between the East Coast and west Coast. Even today it remains an important part of the interste highway system as a main point on US Highway 80 which means there are a high number of restaurants, gas stations and motels

    Do not neglect the missionary life of Fr. Nicolae Yanney who baptized almost 1000 souls in a 10 state area right in the chest of the United States.

  38. juliania Avatar
    juliania

    I have had a very different experience from most here, but at the same time everyone’s accounts resonate. I first entered an Orthodox church, (or chapel it humbly should be called), midway through raising my own little family. It was originally a garage, freestanding from the house and blessedly oriented eastward, built of adobe. There was a small iconostasis with icons decoupaged from beautiful 16th century prints, the famous ones. The ceiling was vigas, spanish style, with skylights very low so we could see the stars. The choir was us.

    God was there, very near. A number of other families came. Some Greek, some Russian, some students from the college nearby. We even at Easter had Carmelite nuns – because that way they experienced the ancient liturgy. And at Easter, yes, the church was full, probably 50 people. Lots of children, including my own.

    Now that little church is no more, and yet still is. I only need to close my eyes and I am there.

    Thank you, Father Stephen, especially for the quote from Saint Gregory of Nyssa.

  39. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Juliana,
    Beautiful.

  40. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks so much Michael for sharing about the mission expansion of Orthodoxy into Nebraska. It would be interesting to read a book about the history of Orthodoxy in America.

  41. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Two biographies of Fr. Yanney
    Eighth Day Books https://www.eighthdaybooks.com/

    The owner and I worship together. I will ask him today

  42. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Michael!

  43. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    One brand new book by a young man I watched grow up: Matthew Namee. Lost Histories (sub-title).
    If you e-mail Warren Farha off the 8th Day website, he will recommend others

    Editor’s note: Matthew Namee is probably the foremost authority on the history of Orthodoxy in America. His manages the website: https://www.orthodoxhistory.org/ I unreservedly recommend his writing. It is accurate and reliable.

  44. Manfred Meyer Avatar
    Manfred Meyer

    @Matthew:
    “I realize that Christendom has breathed its last breath in Western Europe, … “

    I hadn’t realized that.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YN6g6SypqWg

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhRDst_l10

    Leaving the current situation in Western Europe aside, one could even imagine a country with a tiny, tiny minority of Christians amounting to only about one percent of the population, but where Christians nevertheless, though having been persecuted in the past, now enjoy highest sympathies, where they have, through kindergardens, schools, universities, hospitals, charitable work a profound influence on many, many people, where Christians are also overrepresented among prime ministers of that country.

    Also: long, long, long long queues of non-christians in front of churches on Christmas eve.
    Instead of writing about the queues in front of churches, the mature, spirit-filled priest will, of course, write about the queues in front of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

  45. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Manfred, Matthew,
    I think it’s not incorrect to say that “Christendom” has breathed its last breath in Western Europe…but that’s a far cry from saying that Christianity (the Church) has breathed its last breath in Western Europe. I’m not sure that Christendom was ever anything to be desired – it had a way of swallowing the faith and giving something less substantial in return.

    I have a deep, profound hope in the Church and in the many thousands who have “not bowed theirs knees to Baal.” What I do not know is “what time it is” that we live in. That’s the sort of thing that is known only to God. I know that the fields are ripe.

  46. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Hello Manfred and Fr. Stephen.

    What I mean by Christendom is a time in Western Europe when the Church was front and center in the society. It was the mover and the shaker of all things cultural. In fact … it was the culture writ large in terms of might and influence.

    This is what is breathing its last breath (IMO) in Western Europe as intense secularism coupled with immigration/migration from lands that are not majority Christian are establishing a much stronger foothold here. I see the Church moving more to the margins in this part of the world (kind of like the margins where the Church existed in the early days), even though there are European politicans and political parties who are striving to avoid this marginalization. I have no idea if this will happen in my lifetime.

    Just because people stand in line to fill our Church on Christmas Eve (when most of the year the Church is rather sparsely populated), or simply because people flock to listen to a Bach concert in a church building, doesn´t necessarily mean I live in a truly Christian culture (anymore), even though to many people the west remains dominated by the Christian religion.

  47. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    I think the history and development of secularism in European history is worthy of note in all of this. It’s complicated (or, at least layered). It also varies somewhat from state to state. A large part of the philosophy of modernity are the assumptions that undergird secularism. Fr. Alexander Schmemann famously said that secularism was the greatest heresy of our time. It is, frankly, a reason that I push as hard against modernity and its ideas as I do. Modernity has the entire weight of popular culture, elite culture, and the state on its side. It would like a modernized Christianity.

  48. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks Fr. Stephen. Food for thought …

  49. Manfred Meyer Avatar
    Manfred Meyer

    @Matthew:

    Almost anywhere in Western Europe, in whatever city and part of town you live, you will likely hear Church bells several times a day (which, by the way, Josef Pieper mentioned as a reason for not moving to the US, where he missed that).
    That is pretty much an indication of a Christian culture.

    Wherever you are in Western Europe, tomorrow will be a holiday, and for the very vast majority of people certainly a more important holiday, whether they are consciously believers or not, than any public holiday with a pure secular background.
    While church attendance and membership are declining, and some church buildings are closed or re-dedicated for other usage: They are at least not bombed, as is happening currently in a certain area of Eastern Europe; if there is an area in Europe where one can speak of Christendom breathing its last breath, it is not necessarily the Western part that first comes to mind.

    Nobody who listens to a Bach concert will lightly speak evil of Jesus soon afterwards.

  50. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Manfred,
    Echoing your thoughts on this…Tom Holland, the British historian, made the point in his book, Dominion, that even those who are thorough-going modern secularists in the West are still unconsciously “Christian” – it is their culture. His book has had a strong influence on a number of people, including some who have gone on to make the leap to become consciously Christian. We live in an interesting time – but it’s still a “Christ-shaped” time.

  51. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks again Manfred and Fr. Stephen.

    Manfred, you make some excellent points and your thoughts are certainly less pessimistic than mine. Thank you.

    Fr. Stephen, could you help Manfred and I navigate my view of a Christendom that is breathing its last breath and his view that Christianity is still a central part of western culture? Can we both be right?

  52. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    I wrote “Christendom” but should have written “Dominion” (Holland’s book). I’ve corrected it.

    I think the difference between what you’re saying and what Manfred is saying is a description of the same thing. Your point is that you think you’re the end of something, whereas Manfred is describing it as not yet out of breath – and he’s noting just how much it permeates a culture.

    I suppose it depends on what “time” we think it is.

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