The Tears of Our Fathers

The first time I saw my father cry was a day of deep tragedy. An aunt, my mother’s oldest sister, had been brutally murdered by a stranger who came into her office off the street. It made no sense. I was nine years old. I opened the door to my father’s bedroom and saw him lying face-down on his bed. The bed shook as he wept. Grief had consumed him. The days that followed would see many tears, along with voices of anger and confusion.

My father lived to be 87 (he was received into the Orthodox Church at age 79). After my Dad’s death, his priest told me: “Your mother was a mystic and your father had the gift of tears.” Indeed, across the years, I saw his tears many times, frequently at the dinner table on those occasions in which he was asked to “return thanks.” His tears were evidence of his heart.

We did not discuss religion to any great extent in my home. We were not taught to pray at bedtime. We attended Church sporadically. I have fond memories of walking down the railroad tracks with my older brother to the small Church about a mile away. It made everything seem like an adventure. My brother tells the story that he was teasing me one Sunday as we walked along. I was carrying my small Bible. He said, “Why are you carrying that Bible? You can’t even read!” He laughs when he recalls my answer. “It doesn’t matter. It’s the word of God!”

The Scriptures are a true sacrament. Indeed, St. Maximos the Confessor describes three “incarnations” of the Logos: as a human being in the God-Man Jesus Christ, in creation itself, and in the Scriptures. It is very strong language to describe how God permeates His creation and has done everything to make our communion with Him possible.

The Coptic monk, Fr. Matta Al-Miskin, once wrote that if we were to take but a single saying of Our Lord and apply it with all of our might and strength, it would become for us the gate to the Kingdom of God. I have pondered the saying, on and off, for nearly 50 years. It goes far to explain the phenomenon of sanctity that is sometimes experienced outside the visible bounds of the Orthodox Church.

I have written and spoken often about my father-in-law, a devout Baptist. He was a living example of this principle. He took the saying, “Give thanks for all things” (in its various versions) as an inviolable law. There were a number of other such examples in his life. But I can say of him that his life answered the question: “What would it look like if I actually practiced this saying?” The result was astounding. Such is the sacramental reality of the Scriptures.

That same small Bible that I carried with me to Church had a frontispiece (picture) in it of Raphael’s Sistine Madonna. That painting was treasured by Dostoevsky. A copy hung over the couch that became his death bed. It was only in my adult years (as an Anglican) that I learned of devotion to the Mother of God. But, she had been with me through all those years just as the Scriptures themselves had been. The Fathers of the Seventh Council declared that “icons do with color what the Scripture does with words.”

That “reflexive principle” (“this does with this what that does with that”) is deeply revealing. Working with words, we tend to become enmeshed in ideas and abstractions. We quickly forget that the One whom we name as the “Word” (Logos) is fully human as well as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. The Logos has fingers and toes.

In our own lives, it is possible to concentrate on the ideas to the exclusion of all else. There is a genius in the life of the Church. Though the great decisions of the faith often seem to concentrate on the finer points of doctrine (ideas), the true life of the Church is primarily expressed as worship. Orthodoxia is best translated as “right worship.” I have smiled through the years as I have watched toddlers in Church gradually learn to make the sign of the Cross in an Orthodox manner. At first it may be little more than knocking themselves on the head. But you know it’s the sign of the Cross when it’s followed by a kiss (or hug) to an icon. Pre-verbal, children are learning how to worship “by heart.”

My father phoned me during his first experience of Orthodox Great Lent. “Son, they brought out the Cross today,” he explained. “Yes, Dad. It’s the third Sunday of Lent. The Sunday of the Cross.”

“Well, I wanted to get down,” (we make a prostration before the Cross on that day). He went on, “But they had to get me back up.” I strongly suspect that the whole exercise involved tears on his part. But he said nothing about them. Words simply cannot be that eloquent.

It was his gift.

 

 

 

 

 

 

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a retired Archpriest of the Orthodox Church in America. He is also author of Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, and Face to Face: Knowing God Beyond Our Shame, as well as the Glory to God podcast series on Ancient Faith Radio.



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49 responses to “The Tears of Our Fathers”

  1. Dino Avatar
    Dino

    What beauty!

  2. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    This essay made me smile! 🙂

    I found a crayon drawing I made as a child (ironically it was on the back of a hymn book of the liturgy). It was a lady, the sun, flowers, and a kind of net of color on her head and around her. I once showed it to a therapist as an adult. He (a non-Christian) said, “That almost looks like a veil of protection.” Boom. I know She was watching over me from when I was very little, before I understood much of anything intellectually about the Theotokos. She still mystically appears in my life in ways beyond my grasp

  3. Patricia Avatar
    Patricia

    As a recovering evangelical who was force fed Bible verses ad nauseam, I struggle with finding a place in my Orthodox life for a love of scripture. I love the Church prayers. I love the Church stories about the saints. I gobble up the writings by the Church Fathers. I love my life as an Orthodox Christian. But I struggle to find a place for Bible reading in my life. Can you offer some guidance to get me beyond “right worship” to fully embrace The Word in my life in all its glory?

  4. Margaret Avatar
    Margaret

    Thank you Fr. Stephen

  5. Andrew Avatar
    Andrew

    Thank you for this. I’m currently enrolled in a theological program. It’s good and, I believe, the right thing for me to be doing right now (as guided by my priest). But I feel the struggle of trying to find simplicity amidst the complex ideas, dogma and history we’re working through. I don’t think these things are opposed (though they can certainly become so). Learning how to hold them both in their proper place is, I think, the real education I’m undergoing.

  6. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, since I took Mt 4:17 as my scriptural and spiritual principle, many other Scripture has popped out at me often through icons at my parish. As well as Scripture and Sermons.

    I think that illustrates what you are talking about. Much more work to do.

  7. Al Lovecky Avatar
    Al Lovecky

    Thank you Fr. Stephen!!!

  8. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Patricia,
    What you are describing is a sort of “soul-wound” as a result of a form of “abuse.” Sadly, every “sacrament” can be misused rather than properly honored and loved. The Scriptures, in particular, have suffered the most in this regard, I think. I recently made reference to an article I wrote about 10 years back called, Has Your Bible Become a Quran? It’s an exploration of one of the angles that helped create the fetish of Sola Scriptura (“Bible only”) and turned the Scriptures into something they were never intended to be.

    The Scriptures are “the Church’s book.” They belong to the Church (the Holy Orthodox Church). They are properly only read in the context of the Church and in the context of how the Church reads them (and we do best to gain that understanding by listening to how the various services of the Church employ and interpret them). Instead, the Reformation wrenched the Scriptures out of the Church and turned them into something that was now greater than the Church (greater than all of us), and turned them into Law (in many instances) and demanded a sort of fealty or submission (as in Islam).

    Christ never “wrote” anything. The gospels bear witness to Him and the Church accepted the four gospels that we have not because of a perfect record, but because they recognized into those gospels an authentic presentation of the teaching and person of Christ. The same can be said of the Letters. The Old Testament was a “problem” from the beginning. And, though many treat the OT as though Christ is “obviously” prophesied in it, etc., the fact is that even Christ’s own disciples who had been with Him for several years did not understand or see this at first. In Luke 23-24, Christ has to explain the Scriptures to His disciples (after the resurrection).

    “Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.”
    (Luke 24:44–45)

    But He had to “open their understanding.”

    So, I would suggest two things. First, pray and ask Christ to begin healing the wound in your soul. Pray for those who misused the Scripture with you, and, to whatever extent possible, forgive them – or at least pray for them that God forgive them.

    Second, pray simply that Christ will “open your understanding” – that is – that He show Himself to you in the Scriptures. It might be that He’s already doing this in the Liturgy. The prayers of St. John Chrysostom or St. Basil, for example, are almost nothing but Scripture being quoted, but its being quoted and used in its proper way and context.

    We all have to work through things like this. I know that I have (and still do). God give us grace!

  9. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Andrew,
    Believe me, I understand. When you study, don’t forget to pray. Ask Christ to use the studies in your life. Be patient. That which is true, even in very complex teachings, is actually still quite simple in my experience. It’s just that we have to dig a bit deeper. It’ll come. The “coins” still drop for me, sometimes decades after I’ve studied something.

  10. Lyra Josefsson Avatar
    Lyra Josefsson

    Axios

  11. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Fr. Stephen wrote:
    The prayers of St. John Chrysostom or St. Basil, for example, are almost nothing but Scripture being quoted, but its being quoted and used in its proper way and context.

    One of my most favorite prayers is the Prayer Behind the Ambon. My priest used to have us say it with him at the end of liturgy, and I loved it. It’s almost all Scripture, I think.

    “O Lord, Who blesses those who bless You and sanctifies those who put their trust in You, save Your people and bless Your inheritance. Protect the whole body of Your Church. Sanctify those who love the beauty of Your house. Glorify them in return by Your divine power, and forsake us not who have set our hope in You. Grant peace to Your world, to Your churches, to the clergy, to our civic leaders, to the armed forces, and to all Your people. For every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from You, the Father of lights. To You we give glory, thanksgiving, and worship, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.”

  12. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    All,
    The conversation viz. the Scriptures touched my heart deeply. It’s something that goes to the heart of the Orthodox life. The Liturgy (in its earliest form) predates any writing of the New Testament by decades. St. Paul, in his first letter to the Corinthians quotes from the Liturgy in words that are found in almost the exact same pattern and form in Matthew, Mark, and Luke (none of which had been written as of yet). What seems clear to most scholars is that the gospels existed as oral set-pieces long before they were written down – and those oral forms are exceedingly early (within the first decade of the Church).

    St. Justin Martyr, writing in the first half of the 2nd century, gives one of the earliest descriptions of the Divine Liturgy. It follows, in outline form, the pattern that has continued throughout the whole of the Church’s life. He also makes reference to reading “from the memoirs of the apostles which we call gospels.” The Divine Liturgy has continued to be the primary teaching “device” of the Church.

    In my retirement, I spend many hours a day with my wife (still my very best friend). We talk sometimes, but we also have lots of quiet. In the early years of a marriage (I suppose), people may well think or speak of their “relationship.” We don’t do that so much, other than to occasionally reflect on the years we have shared. These hours of the day and night are the “liturgy” of our marriage.

    I suspect that when we think of “praying without ceasing” we are speaking of the “liturgy of our life in Christ.” It is simply a way of spending the hours with Him and in Him. We are troubled sometimes by various thoughts and events – and they can shake us to the core. But the “liturgy” continues.

    It is interesting to me that my faith in Christ had one of its earliest beginnings in that year when I saw my father shaking in tears and weeping over the murder of my aunt. A few months later, another aunt died of Lupus. Also, a few months later, President Kennedy was shot and the world came to a stop for several days. There was a lot of death in a short space of time that was shattering my life as a 9-10 year-old. I came to the conclusion in that year that either there was a God or there was no meaning in anything. I’ve later joked that I became a 9 year-old Dostoevsky. I accepted God. I did not accept an explanation – only that there was meaning and it was God.

    Church was not much as liturgies go – indeed, it was almost “anti-liturgy.” By age 13 I quit – though I didn’t reject God. At age 15, I saw a Liturgy for the first time (Anglican). That revealed God, or carried the presence of God, in a manner that nothing before ever had.

    I’ve had all kinds of ups and downs over the years – things that rattled me and tried to drag me off-track. That early decision at age 9-10 has held up – with lots of “meat on its bones”. I find deep resonance in the affirmation that concludes most services in the Orthodox Church: “For He is a good God and loves mankind.” That is a phrase that sums up the Cross – it is Pascha.

    St. Sophrony famously spoke of “standing at the edge of the abyss.” That describes my experience as a 9 year-old. I do not deny the abyss. Christ leads us there from the Garden to the Cross. The Church’s liturgy takes us there in graphic form each year in Holy Week. I think the texts of Holy Week make the greatest basis for understanding the Scriptures. As St. Sophrony suggests – stand at the edge of the abyss until you can take no more, then step back and have a cup of tea. This morning, mind is coffee…American as I am.

  13. Margaret Avatar
    Margaret

    Fr. Stephen, Thank you for taking the time to write this comment here on October 15, 2024.

  14. Cainnech Avatar
    Cainnech

    Fr. Stephen,

    Thank you for this post and for your very helpful replies to the comments about the Scriptures and Liturgy.

    I am wondering if your father ever seemed “embarrassed” about his tears? I know that there is no reason to feel that way, yet it is a common reaction that probably involves a sense of shame as you explain in your book. The reason I ask is that I cry easily but try to avoid crying in public, probably related to shame. Is there anything you might say about this?

  15. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Cainnech,
    I do not recall my father seeming embarrassed about his tears – though I hadn’t thought about it before. Many people are quite shy in that regard. I think the nature of the reaction (and it is “shame” related) is that it is a public display of vulnerability. In many ways, that’s the very heart of shame. “We heard you walking in the garden and we hid because we were naked.”

    There’s nothing wrong with that kind of shyness, I think. But, being able to weep is extremely healthy. Many men (myself included) find it very hard to weep. It also means that it’s difficult to access the heart. Fr. Zacharias of Essex once said to me that on the Holy Mountain, if a monk was grumpy in the morning, they would say of him, “He didn’t weep enough last night.”

    The Fathers said that tears were “a second Baptism.”

  16. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Well, My father was an emotionally manipulative man with deep anger issues. Physically intimidating because he wrestled at the dominate college program. Oklahoma State
    .
    In his fits of anger, he would be physically abusive to my mother, a lythe dancer of 5’3″

    My father had a genius level IQ and had a vision for public health that was not widely shared and effectively disappeared when he retired.
    .
    Quite a mixed bag with my Dad who has no belief in a personal God. Not surprising I came to the Orthodox Church through Mary, the Theotokos. I knew I was going to become Orthodox when I encountered her in the icon, More Spacious Than the Heavens.

    My family and I stayed despite having an abusive priest.

    Through Mary, I met her Son and experience the Holy Divine Liturgy and the other Sacraments. My contact with Holy Scripture has been in that context alone. Substantial, but indirect.

    The glory and beauty and personal contact through the icons at my parish are still primary.

    Yet it is one specific Scripture that is putting all into a deeper, broader context: Matthew 4:17 “Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.”

    Forgive me, a sinner.

  17. Cainnech Avatar
    Cainnech

    Thank you, Father, that’s very helpful!

  18. Sharon Avatar
    Sharon

    Fr. Bless!

    All that I “hear” in this essay is a simple and pure love between you and your father, and I see that love between you and your grandson in the accompanying photo, and it is enough.

    Thank you for sharing.

  19. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    As a person who is still a child in Christ, one who needs to learn a lot, I have reflected on your words in the article and in your beautiful comment. I have memories that go back to when I was very young. And I remember that even when I was very young, I was able to discern who was a grown-up and who wasn’t, even when both seemed “big” to me.

    I’m so grateful for your blog because the articles you write are small pieces of meat that are sufficient for the children of Christ to chew on. They are nutritious meat and not the cotton candy of philosophers. Thank you, dear Father, and please forgive me for my outspokenness.

  20. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Your comments – including the “outspokenness” (which is no more than honesty) – are always a balm to my soul. Such joy.

  21. Janette Adelle Reget Avatar
    Janette Adelle Reget

    I often reflect on the words of Julian of Norwich. “All shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.” When I recall these words, things seem to fall into place, and my anxiety is less.

  22. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janette,
    Indeed. I take comfort in her words. She also (as part of that) had a profound vision of Christ Crucified. All will be well because Christ has taken all suffering into Himself.

  23. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, is not Confession one way of entering into Christ Crucified, or do I have it wrong?

  24. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father, you wrote:
    All will be well because Christ has taken all suffering into Himself.

    Do you mean by this that He has transfigured (and so healed) our suffering? Or is there more which I do not fully understand? Could you elaborate more? Thank you.

    Dee I would like to second Father’s comment.

  25. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    St. Maximus the Confessor (The Church’s Mystagogy, 24) writes: “And if the poor man is God, it is because of God’s condescension in becoming poor for us and in taking upon himself by his own suffering the sufferings of each one and ‘until the end of time,’ always suffering mystically out of goodness in proportion to each one’s suffering”.

    It’s a passage in which he is discussing Matthew 25, where Christ tells us that “inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me.”

    I have extended that understanding of His taking our suffering into Himself to included the suffering of the whole creation. Given the union implied in Romans 8 between creation’s groaning and our own salvation, it seems entirely appropriate.

    I do not fully understand this mystery of suffering – but I believe that in the Cross, all of it has been drawn into Christ. And, just as it has been drawn into His Cross, so it will be drawn into His resurrection (as described in Roimans 8 – when creation will share in the “glorious liberty of the sons of God”). I think that this is why St. Maximus elsewhere says that “He who understands the mystery of the Cross understands all things.”

    I’ll add a further thought: I think that this mystery is the nature of love itself – it reveals what love is. Love “endures all things.” What parent, seeing a child suffering, would not gladly take that suffering into themselves, if possible? It is what love does (or would do). The fact that there is suffering is a mystery, no doubt. However, we are told that the “Lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth” which pushes suffering (in some sense) to before creation itself. We cannot simply invoke the “fall” as the cause of suffering – there’s a mystery deeper than that and God Himself (the Lamb) is involved in it. I ponder these things again and again.

  26. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    Once again you provide the bread I’ve needed to hear. Thank you for your comment to Janine. And thank you Janine for asking your question.

  27. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    I can’t help sharing a small portion of my Psalms reading with you: 103:15
    “… and bread strengthens a man’s heart”.

    So much goes on in the heart. Glory to God.

  28. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Indeed. And wine makes it rejoice… 🙂

    I’ll share a short thought that came to me recently. My Protestant background (I suppose) has always driven me to think in sacrifical terms (like OT sacrifice) whenever someone in the NT mentions the blood of Christ. It occurred to me, however, that perhaps the author had the Eucharistic Blood of Christ in mind when they wrote (though that blood is all the same blood). For example:

    “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have communion with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”
    (1 John 1:7)

    Thinking of this in eucharistic terms makes it more immediate and not abstract. I don’t know why I haven’t read it that way before.

  29. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thank you so much Father and Dee. Yes, regarding blood, I think it’s also important to remember that it was the blood of the Lamb we’re talking about including its indications about Passover. It’s what saves. I think about the crowd at the Crucifixion in John’s Gospel, “His blood be upon us…” but I know that in the Orthodox Study Bible they cite the view that this is an inadvertent blessing because all of us want His blood upon us (plus thousands were converted at Pentecost, so this is the perspective, not any perverse reading of it to justify sinful behavior). It’s like Caiaphas’ unwitting prophesy as High Priest about one man dying for the nation.

    Recently I was thinking about suffering too and I thought, well, Christ could have taken away all suffering if he wanted to, he could have stopped all sin etc. But you know if we didn’t have suffering how would we ever see compassion or know it or have occasion to execute it? Suffering in a perplexing way actually gives us occasion for righteous behavior and the learning of it. So like everything else God brings good out of evil. Can we even imagine what selfish creatures we might be without it? It gives us a choice

  30. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    PS Father — It was actually your comment about seeking to help one another to bear suffering rather than eradication that sparked that thought….

  31. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    I cannot bring myself to say that “suffering is necessary.” That’s something that is wrapped in mystery for me. It’s just that I see that God has wrapped Himself in the mystery of suffering (the Lamb slain before the foundation…) even before creation.

    I once wrote (speculating way above my head) about a notion of “unfallen suffering” – but, again, I cannot say anything that is a knowledge I possess in this matter. But, in this world, we see suffering. And God has taken it into Himself – all of it.

  32. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thank you again, Father. I think that probably none of us could decide as human beings what is necessary. As you suggest, that’s God’s purview (what’s necessary) — not ours! We can’t limit God who can do anything!

    Wow, ties in to Job here, both his suffering and God’s response. And let me thank both you and Dee again for this enlightening conversation!!

    I want to say, sadly though, there are those who enjoy others’ suffering. I don’t know why. “The love of many will grow cold”

  33. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father, I’ve been thinking about your possible speculation on “unfallen suffering,” and it really seems like there would be some sort of either suffering or imperfection of life that would have been possible. Perhaps not suffering at all as we think of it, but whatever imperfection would have meant under such circumstances. I mean, Adam and Eve were not “perfect” and I think we could presume that even without the fall some sort of growth and change might have still been in the process of life for human beings. But like you say, one cannot know. (Not modest when I say I am at a far greater deficit than you are in these areas obviously)

  34. Caliban Avatar
    Caliban

    Sola Scriptura was a healthy response to the abuses administered at the hands of the Catholic church which exempted itself from accountability for its actions, which were deplorable. Sola Scriptura moved people to a place where their conscience could lead them and not blind obedience to priests and bishops. In context, sola scriptura makes complete sense. It was an effort to assert the right of the individual to obey God rather than man.

  35. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Caliban,
    I disagree. Both Luther and Calvin burned heretics. Luther supported the slaughter of the Peasants in the Peasants’ Revolt. Calvin’s Geneva was as oppressive as almost anywhere in history. The Reformation in England was sponsored by academics and royal authority, and forced on the population as a whole (I recommend Eamon Duffy’s The Voices of Morebath for a close look at how the Reformation played out in a single village over time). Rather than freedom of conscience, Protestant England eventually wound up with a Civil War driven by religious issues. Nor were they willing to tolerate the Catholic consciences of the Irish. I think it’s only later in America, as the denominational situation evolved towards its modern form that you see much leeway on individual conscience – and – as often as not – what we call conscience is little more than the forces of culture at work in a population.

    No doubt, there were abuses in Catholicism that needed to be corrected (I don’t know any Catholic who would disagree with that). But I think that it often gets exaggerated. We’ve had aabout 500 years of unrelenting Protestant propaganda on that score which has done everything but given us a careful and honest reading of history.

    When America asserts the notion of the individual in the Declaration of Independence, it was somewhat radical (though already 250 years after the beginnings of the Reformation). And, when it began to be applied in France, with the Declaration of the Rights of Man, its most immediate aftermath was the bloodbath of the French Revolution.

    History in these things is a mess – still a bit of a mess. But I do not think sola scriptura came about in the manner you describe. I think it evolved in a manner in which it was justified with that reasoning later on. But the same conscience that justified it, quickly decided, on the whole, to do without Scripture altogether. At the same time, we have new “lords” in the academic world (for example) and elsewhere, whose new orthodoxies are today being enforced as firmly as the old orthodoxies. There’s something within us, I suspect, that can run off the rails in that direction with great ease.

    But, that’s just my take on the topic, fwiw.

    I’m back on the road in the morning, so I’ll be unable to monitor the discussion very much. But I appreciate the thoughts.

  36. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Safe travels, Fr Stephen!

  37. Caliban the Leper Avatar
    Caliban the Leper

    Why do you think Sola Scriptura emerged if it wasn’t to justify challenging the authority of the Catholic church? From what little I understand of the time an individual’s conscience had no authority. St. Ignatius of Loyola famously said “What seems to me white, I will believe black if the hierarchical Church so defines.” If that is the mindset of the true believing Catholic, if that is the saintly ideal. Then on what basis could any individual hope to challenge the authority of the Church. I understand that this whole idea was a fall out from Luther’s 99 theses. There would be no moral ground for exercising one’s own God given reason if there wasn’t some appeal to an authority higher than the Church. Galileo and Bruno are good examples of what happens when reason butts heads with the pope.

    What you’re implying is that there is no authority higher than the Church and that there is no authority to appeal to outside the Church. I am not saying that I buy into the idea of Sola Scriptura, but I can certainly see why an individual needs to have a moral authority higher than the Church, especially if individual autonomy had been undermined for 1500 years.

  38. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Caliban, the ecclesial history of western Europe beginning with the lead up to The Great Schism is enormously complex and inter tangled with heresy, pride and down right stupidity by all parties involved. There is no simple, direct theological explanation as you suggest especially one that is reductionistic.
    Only a more expensive as we Orthodox are at our best provides a decent way forward.

    Our Lord, the Theotokos, the Holy Saints revealed directly, in the Holy Sacraments, in The Cross, the Icons, prayer and fasting and feasts and feasts all within an Ecclesial Hierarchy that, even when it goes wrong is amenable to the healing of the Holy Spirit. All of that is what gave birth to the Holy Scriptures and to which the Holy Scriptures testify.

    Sola Scriptura led to modernism and an empty atheistic intellectualism that has and is a contributing factor to the death of millions.

  39. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Caliban,
    I agree that sola scriptura became a tool to challenge the authority of the Catholic Church (the Papacy). It’s just that the autonomy of the individual emerged later. If you will, it wasn’t the freedom of conscience that was championed so much as the domination of the Scriptures (“the paper pope”). Though the notion of freedom is strong in Luther, no doubt.

    What I’m saying, for myself, is that there is such a thing as authority – and it belongs to God. As Christians, we exist in the union of our life in Christ which is expressed as Church. How that communion’s life deals with certain questions inevitably involves some sort of expression of authority. How the authority is used varies (or it has varied over time). But even the Protestants exercise some kind of authority – even if it’s the congregation voting you out. All authority can be abused (Christ warns about it). But Christianity isn’t anarchy or pure individualism.

    Christ gave us the Church, complete with apostles, etc. They gave us bishops, priests, deacons. The Church is not a human invention…though it’s also quite human. Autonomy never really works in a pure form. It’s part of a balance, a tension. Christ taught love as the right manner of living – and it is only love (from all sides) that makes a proper level of autonomy and responsibility possible. Love doesn’t coerce. Neither does love demand its own way. And that’s a two-way street. I think the history of the Church – on the side of its failures – is primarily a story of the failure to love. The Church on the side of its successes is the story of the triumph of love.

    The Reformation was not a success. But it was the failure to love that brought it about.

    One last note: I think there’s a difference between sola scriptura and sola individuala (or whatever the Latin word would be). But, sola scriptura was certainly a step in that direction…I’m just saying that the Reformers were not intending to go that far.

  40. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    When I was a catechumen, I asked my catechism teacher (an Orthodox priest), how am I to read the Bible? Having spent the majority of my life at that time as a non-Christian but a believer in God, I had spent my life pretty much reading the Psalms and some of the ‘Old Testament’ but not reading the New Testament, seeing it as so much ‘hokum.’ And there were places here and there in the Bible that were so unreal that as a body of literature, I felt that much of it wasn’t intended to be read literally. I found it very helpful to my understanding and life in Christ that my priest said that I should consider it “liturgy”–the words of a congregation in worship of God.

    When Christ was asked which was the first commandment of all, he didn’t mention ‘read the scriptures’. He said ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and will all your strength. This is the first commandment, and the second like it is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these”. In other words, He refers to the way we live our lives and what is in our hearts.

    Just like an earlier commenter in this stream, I, too, was shamed by the proverbial Bible thumpers. I’m amazed in retrospect that I clung to the Bible by the thread that was the Psalms. That was enough, it seems, for the Lord to hold onto me.
    Now, of course, I read the New Testament. I’m grateful for my Orthodox teachers who showed me how to read it. Just like the disciple Philip helped the Ethiopian. These are the received words of the Church, and the Church is the Body of Christ.

  41. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Dee, your love of the Psalms struck my heart reminding me I need to read them much more.

    Thank you

  42. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Michael,
    I try to read them as often as I can. They assure me that our Lord is not far away, even if I’m not as attentive to His presense as I would like to be.

  43. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Indeed, Father, thank you for the reference to wine! I, too, read such verses and presume His sacrifice without considering the potential reference to the Eucharist. Indeed, wine (the Eucharist) makes the heart rejoice! Thank you for your reflections.

  44. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Shameless plug: My wife and her brother operate a winery. Wyldewood Cellars. 40 different kinds of wine including Elderberry. Her son is the winemaker.

  45. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    I think the history of the Church – on the side of its failures – is primarily a story of the failure to love. The Church on the side of its successes is the story of the triumph of love.

    I mentioned before that my standard answer concerning the authority of the Church is an authority based in love, not worldly power. I thank God that my priest embodies this authority. It is easy to do as he says, even if I don’t always understand it fully.

  46. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Byron, my experience in the Church includes times when love did not seem to be present in my heart and/or the hearts of others. Including superiors BUT when I followed the mandate of the Scripture AND the Sacraments AND the wisdom of an experienced spiritual Father–the love was abundant. For me it began with listening to the Theotokos invitation to come and worship her son.

    Sola Scriptura eliminates the Sacraments, the Theotokos, the Saints and ultimately Jesus Himself.

    Not much love in that.

  47. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father (I hope you’ll read this after your trip),
    I’ve been pondering more on what’s necessary. I would venture to say that God seems to have declared (by His Creation) that what is necessary is freedom. Without freedom we don’t love. In some way, Christ’s voluntary acceptance of the Cross is a true statement of freedom.

    Anyway, I hope these thoughts are worth pondering. God bless and thanks all for comments.

  48. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Janine,

    For what little it’s worth, I think that freedom is essential. Without genuine freedom–whatever that even means–all bets are off. It is central to everything we might hold dear: Faith, love of our children, our values and commitments, giving glory to God for all things. Without freedom the center doesn’t hold, so to speak. It gets lost in the billiard balls. Having said that, we are not as free as we think we are. To live in a fallen world is to live in a world of less freedom, not more. The Scriptures make that abundantly clear. Yet, something of freedom has to remain.

    I understand that true freedom is grounded in and springs from hypostatic fullness. What does that mean? I don’t know, but it makes sense to me when I hear myself say the words. So, it seems to me, that what we have right now is a fragile proto or nascent hypostatic existence, which means we have a nascent freedom. What can we do with the freedom we have? Not much. I think that’s the genius of things like confession and giving glory to God for all things. It is appropriate to the level of freedom we have.

    Obedience is a weird thing to me: I will use my freedom to freely give up my freedom. I think people see it as selfless, but that isn’t necessarily true at all. Perhaps it is a pedagogy or discipline of the ego–maybe, but honestly even that seems sketchy. Whatever we think we mean by freedom and obedience we almost certainly do not understand either of these very well at all. Yet, we just assume without question that we know full well what is meant by “freedom”, “person”, and “obedience”. I bet we would find ourselves surprised.

  49. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Janine, I agree with you. It is impossible to repent, forgive or worship with out love. Not desire, but love.

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