Beyond Death’s Door

“Grandpa, will you die?”

The quiet spoken question from the backseat of my car came from my then four-year-old grandson. I knew it was an important moment.

“Yes, I will. Everyone grows old and dies.” I added, “But then I will be with Jesus in heaven and I will pray for you all the time.”

Silence came as an answer. I knew he was pondering one of the deepest thoughts of his young life. We discussed timing. I reassured him that I did not expect to die any time soon (I’m getting older but I likely have somewhere between one and two decades left). But his sobriety that day continued to speak of an inner assessment of life itself.

Among the most brutal facts of our existence (as well as that of everything around us) is our mortality. Strangely, our culture has no place for death – it is not part of the modern narrative.

There is a phenomenon here in the South (my broader exposure to America is limited) of “celebration of life” services replacing traditional funerals. Happy songs with slides or videos of a life-just-finished are treated as though they were appropriate for grief. In point of fact, they are often grief-denying. One of the local mega-churches has instituted a rule that the body of the deceased is not to be brought into the church. It is quietly buried with a small grave-side service. The celebration of life dominates all. A friend recently posted an article noting that such celebrations ignore the reality of infant deaths.

I would insist that the modern attitude towards death (denial) is related to our culture of consumerism. The dead neither sow nor reap (nor shop).

Death is a boundary issue. To live without the recognition of death is to live a false existence, to deny our own contingency. Our life is not our own – it belongs to God. (Jer. 10: 23).

None of this is morbid. It is oddly “life giving.” Surrounded by beauty and the goodness of God, we ourselves are signs of that same beauty and goodness. We are able to say with God, “It is good.” In and through Christ, even our death has been sanctified, becoming the gate to eternal life rather than an entrance into the shadows of Hades.

All of this is strangely prefigured in Genesis’ creation story. The first six days of creation see the appearance of various things: the sun, the moon, the earth, the waters, the creatures, and human beings. But the work of God is not finished until the seventh day. On that day, it says, “And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.” (Gen. 2:2) It is this Sabbath (seventh) day that God “makes holy.”

“So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.”(Genesis 2:3)

Christ echoes these words as He speaks from the Cross, saying, “It is finished.” The work of the New Creation is completed as Christ enters the “Great and Holy Sabbath” (the Orthodox name for the Saturday of Holy Week). On that Sabbath, Christ “rests” in the tomb. Death itself is sanctified and becomes the weapon by which death-as-bondage is trampled down (“trampling down death by death”). It is Christ’s great and holy Pascha. In Orthodox reckoning, Sunday (as the day of resurrection) is the “eighth day,” the day in which the fulfillment and consequence of the Sabbath is fully revealed.

But the Sabbath is more than “resting from work.” In the scope of the Old Testament, the Sabbath represents a day, a year, and a complete cycle of years. The Sabbath year sees the release of captives and slaves, the cancellation of debts, and the land itself given a year of rest. In the Sabbath year beyond the Sabbath (the 50th year), there is the Jubilee year in which there is a restoration of property to original owners – something of a great “reset.” It is the model for what will be called the “Day of the Lord,” its cosmic version. Christ identified His own coming as the embodiment of that cosmic day (Luke 4:16-21).

It is the Sabbath, particularly in this extended understanding, that reveals its role in sanctifying all time. Christ quotes Isaiah in describing His fulfillment of the prophecy:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” (Luke 4:18–19)

When John the Baptist sent word to Christ, asking if He was truly the Messiah, Christ re-iterated the Isaiah passage:

“Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.” (Luke 7:22–23)

Christ is proclaiming the final Sabbath, the day that sanctifies all days. His commandments regarding debts, forgiveness, and the poor, particularly bring attention to how our lives should conform to this cosmic Jubilee.

In His parables, a rich man goes to Hades, having ignored Lazarus the poor man at his gate. He has created a wall between himself and salvation. No one can reach him. We hear the same theme in another parable of a rich man who was satisfied and pleased with his wealth.

“…and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.” ’But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:17–21)

The rich man in this last parable was the prisoner of his work and wealth. He imagined himself “free” only when he had saved enough to cover his merry retirement. But death mocks his false freedom, demanding his soul that very night. There were no poor souls prepared to receive him.

“Grandpa, will you die?”

Perhaps the right answer is, “I already have.” To unite ourselves with Christ in His tomb, to enter into the glorious Sabbath of His rest, is to have united ourselves with the poor, the sick, the blind, the lame, and the prisoners. This is the life of the Kingdom of God. This is the death that tramples down death.

With Lazarus who once was poor…may we find rest everlasting.

 

About Fr. Stephen Freeman

Fr. Stephen is a retired Archpriest of the Orthodox Church in America, Pastor Emeritus of St. Anne Orthodox Church in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. He is also author of Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One-Storey Universe, and Face to Face: Knowing God Beyond Our Shame, as well as the Glory to God podcast series on Ancient Faith Radio.



Posted

in

, , , ,

by

Comments

53 responses to “Beyond Death’s Door”

  1. Keith Anderson Avatar
    Keith Anderson

    Thank you, Father. I am sitting at my Dad’s bedside in hospice as I read this and as the only Orthodox Christian in my family, I was thinking about the memorial service that would be planned and the slide show that I would probably be the one to make because I’m the techie in the family. Anyway, thank you again for your post (all your posts really!) and the timing of this one is comforting! Please keep Carl (Grandpa to my kids) in your prayers!

  2. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Keith,
    May God comfort you and give you grace – and grant your father an entrance into paradise.

    When I have sat at bedside of the dying over the years, I always felt that I was in an inherently holy place. Heaven and earth are united in a particular way – and we see life in a manner that we too often ignore. May this be a time of grace for you. I’ll remember Carl in my prayers.

  3. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    I will die. I have died. Interesting.

  4. Tim Teusink, M.D., M.A. (Ethics) Avatar
    Tim Teusink, M.D., M.A. (Ethics)

    Thank you Father for this profound and comforting insight. As a physician who has been at the bedside of dying patients, I agree that it is a sacred moment. Christ’s trampling down death by death is our blessed reality in the midst of a temporal and increasingly materialistic and world.

  5. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    That said, Fr. Stephen, isn´t death for Orthodox Christians also very much a celebration of life? For through death we enter into the greatest gift and celebration of all! St. John Chrysostom´s Paschal sermon still moves me greatly!

  6. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    Indeed, death for an Orthodox Christian is a celebration of life – a thanksgiving for its gift. Our life is the life of Christ which is also our pledge of eternal life. An isolated, individual life is not properly lived in a self-referential manner. That, I think, is too often the spin which comes out of the modern cultural context – almost anything rather than face the reality of death itself.

    An Orthodox funeral is bold in its prayers for the departed, but is deeply cognizant of the fragility and shortness of life – that without God it would be meaningless and forgotten.

    The Feast day of a saint is a profound example of a celebration of life – but it comes from its place in Christ.

  7. Justin Avatar
    Justin

    The rich man in this last parable was the prisoner of his work and wealth. He imagined himself “free” only when he had saved enough to cover his merry retirement. But death mocks his false freedom, demanding his soul that very night. There were no poor souls prepared to receive him.

    The parable of the Rich Fool has always haunted me. It is so over and against the ambitions and success goals I had and was taught to have as I went to college, chose a career, got married, etc. In spite of all the protestations to the contrary, even from the church(es) I was raised in, this parable seemed to lay waste to the whole lie. Even now, I continue to be haunted–maybe convicted is better–by the parable, as our children leave home, and my wife and I consider retirement of a sort… which is proving to be the mirage Jesus warned about.

    You are correct: nothing is stopping me from helping the poor, nothing except my own faithlessness. St Isaac’s Homily 4 has something to say about that, I think.

  8. Carolyn Avatar
    Carolyn

    I appreciate this, it is very comforting to realize that our lives are already buried in Christ. We recently returned from a trip to Germany to visit family. My husbands brother passed away a few months ago so we had time to see our sister in law. They do funerals a bit differently in the Russian/German culture my husband grew up in. So after seeing the graves of both his parents and his brother (land that is leased for 25 yrs, not purchased) we sat and thumbed through the photo album. Its something that Americans find strange, to take pictures around the coffin, but page after page we listened to our sister in law talk about the funeral and the people that came. In each of the homes we visited where a loved one had passed we found a large framed photo of their loved one. The photo was sitting in the main living area as if that loved one was there greeting everyone who entered. Father, as I looked at those photos and the offering of flowers or in some cases favorite items sitting next to the photo, it got me to thinking of icons again. I know icons were not discussed here, but seeing those large photos really made me feel close to the one who had passed (we visited 3 homes where loved ones had passed). I sat and really looked at the photos and remembered them and their love for us, it was very moving. I think this is what you are teaching about icons, am I right?

  9. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father, thank you for this.

    Keith, may God bless you, your family, and Carl with peace!

    Father, I am really intrigued by your discussion of Sabbath. So are you saying that death is kind of like a baptism? (I mean, I guess we say baptism is like a death and rebirth, but that’s a different statement.)

  10. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Justin,
    The “Sabbath” context (the whole stretch of it) in Christ’s teaching is deeply important – and goes far to explain the very character of his teaching on the poor, etc. I want to write more about this. I’m going to go read St. Isaac!

  11. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Carolyn,
    Yes, I think you’re right about the icons. The “iconic” instinct in Orthodox cultures can be seen especially in cemeteries where a photograph of the departed is often affixed to the headstone.

  12. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    Yes – death is a Baptism – for sure.

  13. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thanks Father. I guess I had forgotten about this: “You will indeed drink the cup that I drink, and with the baptism I am baptized with you will be baptized” – Mark 10:39

  14. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    Excellent Scripture reference!

  15. Drewster2000 Avatar
    Drewster2000

    Fr. Stephen,

    It sounds like you are in your seventh day, making peace with both life and death. Praise be to God.

    When you described Christ laying in the tomb on the Sabbath, I envisioned Him laying there at peace while all He put in motion did the work for Him. Death was busy trampling down death. His work was done.

    I suspect that is the blessing of the seventh day. Though we will always be at war with the “old man” in this life, I have seen some who reach this point in their lives and they are at peace. God has lifted most of the burden off their shoulders, or maybe they have simply put in place all the practices they need to keep sin at bay. Or probably both. The end result is that they can now rest and that peace is made manifest to those around them with eyes to see and ears to hear.

    May God grant you that peace, good and faithful servant that you are.

  16. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Thank you Father!

  17. Essie Avatar
    Essie

    Thank you Father Stephen. My parents both died thousands of miles from me, their bodies were whisked away and burnt and stuck in a wall. This has amplified my grief and made it difficult to let them go. I have an unrelated, but important question, though it may not seem so to you: when reverencing the Cross after service, is it forbidden to touch the priest’s arm? Sometimes balance is an issue, and with the priest holding up the Cross I sometimes want to steady myself by laying my hand on his wrist. Certainly not touching the Cross. Please tell me if this is not allowed, thank you.

  18. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Drewster,
    I’m still working on entering the Sabbath. As it says in Heb. 4:9-10 “So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.”

    Oddly, giving thanks for all things is deeply connected to this notion of the Sabbath. But, it would take a lot to flesh that out. I’m currently thinking about doing a book on giving thanks (in a very full treatment), and this is something that has been part of that.

    There’s an Orthodox prayer spoken quietly by the priest or deacon when censing the altar befoe the beginning of the Liturgy:

    “In the tomb with the body, in Hades with the soul yet as God, with the thief in paradise, on the throne with the Father and the Holy Spirit, wast Thou, O Christ, filling all things.”

    So, though the Crucified Body of Christ lies quietly in the tomb on the Great and Holy Sabbath, there’s so much more going on. In some places, there’s a Liturgical practice that during the readings from Scripture at the Liturgy on Holy Saturday, at the singing of “Arise, O God and Judge the earth,” in Greek and Arabic tradition, the clergy strew laurel leaves (a symbol of victory) and flower petals all over the church to symbolize Jesus’ triumph over death, often accompanied – especially in Cypriot custom – by the congregation making a loud noise by stamping their feet, banging on pews and sticks, and even clanging pots and pans, all to symbolize Christ shattering the gates and breaking the chains of hell.

    And, note, this is on Holy Saturday! He’s in the tomb…but He’s busy.

  19. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Essie,
    There is no reason not to brace yourself on the priest’s arm. If he asks, you can tell him why you’re doing it. It would be a different matter if someone tried to brace themselves on the priest’s arm when he was giving communion – for the reason that it might jar the Cup and cause it to spill. But, that’s not a problem with the Cross.

  20. Cainnech Avatar
    Cainnech

    Fr. Stephen,

    I recently experienced the death of a family member and found myself confronted with basic questions that needed some clarification or assurance. I was surprised by these questions because they seemed so basic, yet somehow I had not fully dealt with them before. Is Orthodox teaching clear that the deceased continue to have awareness (e.g., are they aware of our daily life)? Does their awareness depend on their closeness to God during their earthly life (e.g., are saints aware but others perhaps not)? Is it proper to pray to a deceased family member (e.g., tell them we love them with assurance that they hear us) in addition to praying to God on their behalf? Popular understandings of these questions are all over the place (even among other Christians), so I would appreciate being better grounded in what the Orthodox Church teaches.

  21. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Cainnech,
    There is much less fixed Orthodox doctrine on these questions than you might imagine. I’ve often thought that argument and debate tend to harden doctrinal positions. Catholics and Protestants classically had strong debates about afterlife issues (purgatory, prayers for the departed, etc.). Orthodoxy was not involved in those debates, and thus tends to have a more open position about certain things. Classically, Orthodoxy rejects the Latin teaching on purgatory, very clearly stated in the teachings of St. Mark of Ephesus in response to the Council of Florence which the Orthodox rejected.

    But there’s some leeway on these things.

    My parents are both deceased. I do talk to them (I don’t think of it as prayer), and have a sense of their presence from time to time. Mostly, I pray for them. The only departed to whom we address prayers formally in the Church are the saints. But, there are many who are not canonized saints but are popularly venerated and treated like saints in the private prayers of the faithful. The OCA is in the process of canonizing Matushka Olga of Alaska. The faithful have been treating her like a saint – even with icons and prayers – for quite some time. Later this year, it will pass from popular to canonical.

    It’s quite likely that you’ll speak with a priest who would say that you may not pray to a deceased relative who is not a saint. But there’s no actual canon that forbids it.

    Are they aware of us. Yes, I believe that most certainly. They are part of the “great cloud of witnesses” spoken of in Hebrews. There are many stories (non-canonical) of faithful Orthodox Christians encounters with the departed (both canonical saints and others).

    I personally believe (as a matter of my own opinion) that our lives are very much “intertwined” with those whom we know and love, especially family. We carry them “inside” us in a host of ways. As we work out our salvation, we are contributing to theirs as well. I also think that as they go “from strength to strength” (an old Anglican phrase that I like) they are contributing to our salvation as well. We’re not alone in all of this.

    Someone among our readers might be able to point to a text that sheds some light on your questions.

    In my book, Everywhere Present, I suggest that the strict rules and imagined borders about all of this is largely a modern/Protestant construct.

  22. Cainnech Avatar
    Cainnech

    Thank you, Fr. Stephen, that’s very helpful! I deeply appreciate your thoughts on this. I had not previously thought about the distinction between prayer to canonical saints and talking to a deceased loved one.

  23. Edmund Avatar
    Edmund

    I wonder if the denial isn’t so much regarding death itself as it is regarding our powerlessness in the face of life events such as death. Here in the UK there is agitation for the legalisation of ‘assisted suicide’ – embracing death – the main argument being that it would end suffering which we have no other means of ending. Abortion also embraces death in order to give a measure of control over life.

  24. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Edmund,
    It is said that modernity has as one of its imagined “missions” the relief of suffering. In the name of that misguided ethic, it will kill you, telling you it’s doing you a favor. Euthanasia, abortion, assisted suicide, are all part of that same imagined “good.” Classical Christianity certain cares about human suffering, but does not raise that care to the level of ultimate concern (there are many things that are more important). Rather than banishing suffering (which we cannot do), we should concern ourselves with being the kind of people and the kind of community that can help people bear their suffering. Modernity has a terrible cruelty baked into it.

  25. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Father Stephen wrote: we should concern ourselves with being the kind of people and the kind of community that can help people bear their suffering
    Brilliant. Thank you. I’ve been trying to think about economia. I hope you do not mind if I quote you and link to your blog!

  26. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Janine,
    What else are blogs for? 🙂

  27. Janine Avatar
    Janine

    Ha 🙂 Thanks Fr. Stephen!

  28. Liz Avatar
    Liz

    Thank you Fr. Stephen. I have a couple of questions: Is there a passage(s) in the Bible which talk about praying for (salvation of) deceased loved ones? And what about praying for others who do not share our Christian faith? A friend asked me about this and I am trying to respond as best as I can. Many Thanks Father.

  29. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Many Protestants doubt or condemn prayers for the departed (of any sort). There are no Scriptures that specifically condemn this practice. There is, however, good evidence that Jews during the time of Christ (and some centuries before and after) prayed for the departed. A passage from the Second book of Maccabees attests to this (though Protestants do not accept this as Scripture – the Orthodox always have). Here’s a quote from an article by Fr. John Breck:

    There is no doubt that Jews of the intertestamental period offered prayers for those who had passed on before them. The most significant passage is probably 2 Maccabees 12. There Judas Maccabeus offers prayer for his fallen warriors who had adopted certain idolatrous practices. He and other survivors “turned to supplication, praying that the sin that had been committed might be wholly blotted out.” The narrator comments: “If he (Judas) were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness [we might add: even for those who die in sin, as did the Maccabbean warriors], it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, so they might be delivered from their sin” (vv. 42-45).

    In the New Testament, there is a clear reference to this practice in 2Timothy 1:18, where St. Paul offers a prayer for his friend, Onesiphorus who had died. Again, I offer a passage from Fr. John Breck:

    …A disciple from Ephesus, Onesiphorus sought out Paul in Rome and extended to him a welcome hand and warm friendship. In 2 Tim 1:16, we read: “May the Lord show mercy to Onesiphorus’ household.” Then in verse 18, “May the Lord grant him (Onesiphorus) to find mercy from the Lord on that day,” meaning the day of judgment. A final reference occurs in 4:19. Here Paul sends personal greetings to Prisca, Aquila and “to Onesiphorus’s household.” The passage then ends with the naming of other of Paul’s co-workers and acquaintances.

    All of this leads to the conclusion that Onesiphorus was no longer alive but rather had died before the letter was written. Yet Paul indisputably prays for him as he looks forward to the general resurrection and final judgment.

    The Orthodox Church has always offered prayers for the departed. In the Liturgy itself we find such prayers.

    There is, I think, a simple bit of reasoning: we may ask God for anything. Prayer is our speaking to God. Do we care about the departed? Do we want good things for them? How can it possibly be right to hide such cares and desires from God (who already knows them)? We offer prayers and we put our trust in God that He is good. We have no definitive teaching from the Church about such prayers other than the statement, “they are of benefit.” And that is enough.

    In my own experience, particularly in counseling with grief, I’ve seen that forbidding such prayers is both counter-intuitive and just one more thing that complicates grief. We should always feel free to offer our cares and concerns to God. He is a good God and loves mankind.

  30. Liz Avatar
    Liz

    Greatly appreciated Fr. Stephen.
    I will keep these for future reference.
    This comes to me also as a reminder that Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice for both the living and the dead. I pray that we give ourselves into His hands and that we also leave in His care and love.

  31. Robert Avatar
    Robert

    Watching my grandmother’s pastor and church force her to swallow her grief and put on a smile for their benefit through one of these “celebrations of life” was one of the most infuriating and baffing experiences of my life.

  32. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Hello Liz. Your asked:

    “Is there a passage(s) in the Bible … ?”

    Would it be safe to say that you are asking this question of Fr. Stephen because your friend was looking for a “biblical” truth regarding praying for the dead? If so, I am so glad you asked this question!

    I am glad, because as a Catholic who was for many years in evangelical spaces, I know that evangelicals are often looking for “biblical” answers/proofs to our Catholic practices that they deem to be “unbiblical”. I think probably Orthodox Christians are often asked to justify their practices – in terms of their biblical justification – to their Protestant neighbors.

    I think before we attempt to parse the biblical revelation in search of proof texts that will satisfy such inquiry, we have to somehow be able to express to the Protestant inquirer that the Bible alone is not our sole source of revelation, authority, and truth. We have to somehow be able to explain what Tradition is (and what it is not) and how the pure biblical revelation relates to Tradition. We have to express the important role the Church plays in helping us understand what the biblical revelation is attempting to teach us as a people of God.

    Admittedly, I have not found a way to easily and quickly enact what I just suggested we (Catholics and Orthodox) need to do about this dilemma, but I think it really is something that must be done. If we don´t do it, and just simply take the bait of “Show me in the Bible where it says …”, then we may very well not be able to fully and truly articulate the truth as the Church understands it.

    Fr. Stephen … can you offer a link to an article you have written on this topic if indeed you have written something? Thanks.

  33. Liz Avatar
    Liz

    Hello Matthew and Robert,
    I totally understand and agree with you both!!
    I believe these couple of statements from Fr. Stephen summarizes it all so well 🙂
    . “We offer prayers and we put our trust in God that He is good. We have no definitive teaching from the Church about such prayers other than the statement, “they are of benefit.” And that is enough.”
    . “In my own experience, particularly in counselling with grief, I’ve seen that forbidding such prayers is both counter-intuitive and just one more thing that complicates grief. We should always feel free to offer our cares and concerns to God. He is a good God and loves mankind.”

  34. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Matthew,
    There are probably some other articles, but this one, “Has Your Bible Become a Quran?” comes to mind. I am indebted to the late Fr. Thomas Hopko for the suggestion of historical case.

  35. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, forgive me, but the manner in which you describe obedience in the referenced article is exactly what I was trying to say. Christian obedience, on a basic level, is a fondation for living and communicating with Jesus.

  36. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    Yes. In that article, I was being careful to distinguish proper Christian obedience to “submission” as understood in Islam, and in some distortions of Christianity. It is synergistic – which is another way of speaking about it as an aspect of love. Love never coerces. Thanks.

  37. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    Thanks so much Fr. Stephen for the link.

  38. Matthew Avatar
    Matthew

    I particularly liked this sentence Fr. Stephen:

    “The absence of a true ecclesiology in contemporary Christianity is a hallmark of its Islamification.”

    It really is an “ecclesiological” issue rather than a “scriptural” issue that keeps so many Christians in a land of confusion … isn´t it Fr. Stephen? If they get the ecclesiology right, then the Bible finds its rightful place within that ecclesiology, which in turn really turns the “Show me in the Bible where it says …” and “My interpretation of the Bible tells me …” arguments on their head!

  39. Byron Avatar
    Byron

    I’ve always found the “Celebration of Life” service to be distasteful. I flat-out don’t care for them.

    But this is an excellent discussion on prayers for those who surround us.

  40. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Byron perhaps because they are so limited to this world: materialistic and reductionistic. The mystery of death is astounding.

    I have been blessed to pray with and for three people as the reposed. Two after becoming Orthodox. The presence of the Holy Spirit and angels praying can be immense.

    Sins are forgiven.

  41. Alan Avatar
    Alan

    Father, thanks for the link to your article from a decade ago: “Has your Bible become a Quran?” I had totally forgotten about the series of posts you did back then and how many folks got all fired up in response to your articles. I just spent some time re-reading those.

    Thanks again.

  42. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Alan,
    Many thanks! It’s nice to think (in our day and time) that an article is not “dated” when it’s ten years old. Orthodoxy should never be “dated.”

  43. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Shoot, if one’s heart is open walking into an Orthodox Church, into the Sanctuary will bring your you into more life than one can stand, and joy, and thanksgiving.
    I will always remember my first time.

  44. Liz Avatar
    Liz

    Ultimately, I think how we express our meaningful relationships, cherished memories and our gratitude to those “gone” is a reflective and very personal space. I hope what I am trying to say makes sense.

  45. Michael Bauman Avatar
    Michael Bauman

    Father, is not humility the key to facing death and allowing Jesus’ Victory to be yours??

    It seemed to be for my late wife as she lay surrounded by the prayers of the Church. She obviously was in prayer herself — struggling now and then, but there was a point when she gave up her heart because it was finished.

    Her best friend was there and saw that and became Orthodox. That was almost 20 years ago but that struggle and the victorious outcome through the mercy of Jesus Christ is still fresh in my heart.
    ,
    Paradoxically, as I contemplate my loss, I also rejoice in her victory.

  46. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    A while back we had comments among our readers about God as “Mind”. If my memory serves me, you and I both pushed against such an outlook.

    In my listening to Nathan Jacob’s podcast, it seems to me I’m hearing a similar argument about God as Mind. I have no doubt (at least based on his credentials) that he could run circles around my own conceptualizations of God in nature. But my own relationship with nature in my work, involves a “body” a “heart”, “eyes” and “mind”. The configurment of this relationship does not rest upon the logic of my mind. The very real interactions I have with nature, inside and outside the lab do not have foundations in my mind, and I dare say, neither the “mind” only of God.

    It seems to me that such conceptualization is a holdover from Protestantism, that sees “God the Father” in the Old Testament (the God of “Genesis”) and Jesus as God in the New Testament.

    Didn’t Jesus say that if one truly sees Him, we also see God the Father? Is Jesus a Mind? Is the organizing principle of this universe the logic of Christ without His Love? Without the sacrifice of His heart, body, soul and mind?

    Please forgive me Father, generally, I find your own arguments sufficient and way more cogent, if I must make comparisons. And perhaps as a good Christian I shouldn’ t say such things and offer more generosity.

    He doesn’t come across that he has had much relationship with nature as someone who has had to speak to nature and listen carefully to its song in response, all their lives. Whose life and their life’s work depended on it. Though I suspect he would argue against such a perception and his skill of argument would likely win out.

    Please forgive me dear father. I have long benefited from your words. Less so from others’.

  47. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee,
    Nathan’s a good guy – but his working on a philosophical point viz. the notion of Realism vs. Nominalism. I gathered that when he was speaking of “mind” he was simply discussing how our brains work – raising the question of whether the patterning, the order, the grouping, are actually realities that exist somehow in the things themselves, in the “mind” of God (which we would name as Logos – and that is so much more than mere “mind”) or whether these are nothing more than concepts that exist only as artifacts of our own thoughts.

    I don’t think that the question – which is a fairly historical debate within Western theology – is intended to speak about the character of God (God as “Mind”), but to talk about the character of the universe and our perception of it.

    Orthodoxy, very much comes down on the side of Realism (Nominalism never found a home in the East).

    Nathan’s stuff may answer questions for some that my work does not. Just thought I’d share it out there. I’m always interested in hearing various ways of discussing these things.

  48. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Michael,
    Humility – is a key to pretty much everything. The Fathers described humility as the “Queen of the virtues.”

  49. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Father,
    I don’t know him. I’m not in a position to speak about him as a person, and I’m not making such a comment. I’m only pointing out the ideas he set forth in the podcast. With your background in theology, such arguments might be made where, in your personal capacity, you can fill the gaps. However to the best of my knowledge my description is what he has said, without the nuance you give it. I don’t remember him mentioning Logos. Perhaps I missed it. I will listen to it again to find it or at least some suggestion of it. As for myself, I would characterize my own thinking as within the philosophical stance of realism, I say this, to confirm I have no argument with that at all. But I also believe that when someone holds such a position of nominalism for long in our lives, we might unintentionally bring such perceptions into our newfound philosophy, mixing them without intending to.

    As you say to Michael, humility is key to pretty much everything. I am no philosopher. I leave the philosophizing to those who have such training.

  50. Merry Bauman Avatar
    Merry Bauman

    Dee, I too leave that to others. Having buried a beloved spouse with one of those celebrations of life type funerals, and going to many of them thru life, my experience with my first Orthodox funeral – 15 yrs ago- was overwhelming! I continue -to this day- to be grateful my funeral one day will be a celebration of prayers for my soul and such beautiful hymns and prayers. I leave every Orthodox funeral almost envying the person who died. That may sound strange to some, but the joys of our heavenly home are present at the funeral, and everyone there is praying for the salvation of the soul of the departed. We pray prayers asking that all the sins not forgiven at the time of their death be forgiven. What a beautiful gift! Our funerals are a celebration of resurrection and the life of the world to come. I have prayed those prayers over many nonOrthodox family and friends too. I love that we have these traditions-that let us pray for the souls of people who have departed too- not just for the living. Offering prayers for forgiveness of sins for departed people who have sinned against us has helped me to truly forgive them in my own heart too. Thank you for this interesting subject. So many are afraid to even discuss death.

  51. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Father,
    Listening further, I’ll mention that I found a place where he does use the word Logos in reference to historical writings of the “philosophers”. And he also references St John’s writings in this context. And unfortunately, I still hear what I’ve said I hear. There is an important distinction when I hear you, dear Father, refer to the Logos. If someone would ask me to whom I recommend for an Orthodox understanding, I know to whom I would point. But such knowledge that I claim to have (to whom I would point) does not come from my mind but from my heart.

  52. Dee of St Herman Avatar
    Dee of St Herman

    Dear Merry,
    Thank you for your lovely comment. The life of prayer is unquestionably on another plane, as you describe so beautifully.

  53. Fr. Stephen Avatar

    Dee, I’ve listened to several of his podcasts as well as his interview with Pageau. I might be conflating them. I know that he’s a solid Orthodox believer…he used to be a member at a parish I visited quite often, though noe he’s in Nashville. I’m sure that you’re hearing what you hear. The discussion on Realism is of interest to me.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *


Subscribe to blog via email

Support the work

Your generous support for Glory to God for All Things will help maintain and expand the work of Fr. Stephen. This ministry continues to grow and your help is important. Thank you for your prayers and encouragement!


Latest Comments


Read my books

Everywhere Present by Stephen Freeman

Listen to my podcast



Categories


Archives