Comments on: The Presence in the Absence

By: fatherstephen

fatherstephen — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:49:45 +0000

Pagels and Armstrong – that works for me. I’ve not come up with any good ones. What I know is by putting together bits and pieces from a variety of sources. The topic is out there but one single source is hard to find.

By: Karen

Karen — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:58:53 +0000

Yes, I put Karen Armstrong in the same category as Elaine Pagels.

Father, do you have any other sources to recommend for looking at the historical developments under discussion in this thread?

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:01:52 +0000

Father / Mark Basil,

Thank you for comments, much appreciated — In truth, I have to admit that I have not read any of Karen Armstrong’s books. The little I have read or followed (in the visual media) I have found to be not in the least bit offensive.

On the other hand, she claims that she has been the target of much hate mail (one letter even included excrement).

This, to me, outweighed all theological arguments.

Indeed He is Risen!

By: fatherstephen

fatherstephen — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:21:29 +0000

I agree with Mark Basil’s take on the book. I would not encourage anyone to spend money on it. There’s no particularly new information, just a thesis which is hopeful, “Can’t we just get along?” Which, though noble, is not accurate with regard to the faiths she addresses. Christianity does not view itself as an “Abrahamic” faith, nor, for that matter, does Judaism (they would more accurately be described as ‘Mosaic’). Only Islam uses the notion of “Abrahamic,” but that was particularly an effort at early proselyting efforts towards Judaism, that quickly went sour. B’hai also claims Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, and a lot of other religious figures – which does not make them Abrahamic in the least. They, too, believe in compassion. The heart of Christianity is Christ, and we are compassionate for very Christic reasons. But we do not trade in Christ for compassion. As well-intentioned as Ms. Armstrong’s work may be, it only has a market in a secular world where religious differences are already seen as silly. In that sense, I find her work profoundly disrespectful of Christian understanding. As a Christian I would say, “In obedience to the commandments of Christ, let’s not kill each other.” To that I can be faithful. What a Jew or a Muslim might do is up to them – of that I will be respectful, praying that what they do does not include killing each other or us. It is deeply debateable whether Christianity and Islam share the same God. Of this, I am more than doubtful. I would expect a Muslim to be doubtful of the Trinity as well. But, there is no God but the Trinity, one in essence and undivided.

By: markbasil

markbasil — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:35:37 +0000

Christ is risen!

Dear Andrew;
many years ago I found Ms. Armstrong’s book on my uncle’s bookshelf. I started reading it and found it so disturbing, so threatenning to my (still intellectually young) Christian faith that I could not continue.
I think it’s a book to be *very* careful with.
That said, your bringing it up has inspired me to read it again. I expect there will be nuggets of truth and petit insights around the margins– I expect there is no light to be found in her “overarching thesis.”

The only holy unity is in Christ. Yes He is the way, truth, and light. Yes practitioners of other religions and atheists too certianly experience and manifest goodness (common to our godlike nature and hunger for communion). However this is different from what I believe Ms. Armstrong is suggesting.
I do not think she has Christian unity in mind.
All of humanity was united in the tower of Babel as well.

Perhas we can have a private conversation about this book, when I do get to reading it (warning: I’m a slow reader!).
please email me if you’re interested at: man or they [all one word] at gmail dot com.

Love;
-Mark Basil

(PS my uncle who owned the book has fallen away from Christian Orthodoxy- now something of a suffering deist)

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:10:49 +0000

Sergieyes if I may:

The overriding theme of Mrs Armstrong’s message — that the Abrahamic monotheistic faiths are unified in their common comprehension of compassion is entirely consistent with Jesus’ rendition of the last (incarnational) judgment (Mt 25:34-45). There is much to ponder in her work.
______________________________________________________

On the other hand, it would be to our own benefit if we could ultimately display at least one iota of the saving graces outlined by PBXVI in Deus caritas est.

By: sergieyes

sergieyes — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:01:00 +0000

“Philip Jude Says: This (History of God)) is a terrible book, I’m afraid to say.etc.” Rabbi Lapin also has a darkness. Thus we can understand why the honorable Fr. Stephen is hesitant to ally himself with Pope Benedict XVI’s oecumenism. Herein lie dragons.
“Father Stephen Says:
Andrew,I am uncomfortable with the Pope’s ecumenism, it seems to go further than I would…”

By: Drewster2000

Drewster2000 — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:42:07 +0000

Philip Jude,

Glad you’re feeling better! (wink)

By: Philip Jude

Philip Jude — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:18:02 +0000

“See: Armstrong, Karen (1993). A History of God. Ballatine Books. ISBN 0345384563.. Youtube videos has some programs featuring Karen Armstrong.”

This is a terrible book, I’m afraid to say. Armstrong is a liberal modernist, a member of the Jesus Seminar. She betrayed her religious vows. Her works on Islam are laughable. Anyone who takes Scripture with a modicum of seriousness is a “fundamentalist” to her eye. Do not waste your money.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:22:08 +0000

Thank you Sergieyes.